I think it's possible Buffy might have gotten herself killed, trying not to kill Angelus--just biding time, waiting for the spell to kick in.

which is why I have forgiven him. She wouldn't have fought nearly as hard as she did if she thought that it might happen. Plus, even if she had known, Angelus still would have opened Acathala's mouth.

standing in Vortex & Cindy's corner. We're very pretty.

I'm not joining in on the W&P because 1) I don't have S3-7 and don't want to have to pull out after S2 and 2) I don't have time, but I'm loving the discussion it's all sparking.

standing in Vortex & Cindy's corner. We're very pretty.

yes, we are.

Right, and she'd have gone in, expecting she could stall rather than psyching herself up for a slaying. Xander was wrong to keep the knowledge from her. That's an abuse of power (friendship = trust = power) that's beneath him.

On the other hand, he was a 16/17 year old boy, who knew what Angelus was capable of. He'd stared him down in Killed by Death (another scene I ADORE) when Buffy was in the hospital. He would have been killed by Angelus in BB&B, if Dru hadn't fallen victim to the love spell and saved him. Miss Calendar was not only dead at Angelus's hand, but her body was left on Giles' bed, just to add to his agony. Willow, who Angelus had stalked (remember the dead fishies) was in critical condition. Xander knew Angelus had stalked Joyce (and harrassed Buffy with it), and probably knew that Angelus told Joyce that he and Buffy had sex. And on the petty side of things, 2 kicked off with Buffy using Xander shamelessly, in her sexy sexy sexy dance to Cibo Matto's "Sugar Water," in WSWB, to make Angel jealous. His lie was way wrong, completely understandable, and might have saved the world.

I did a poll in LJ, on Xander's BIG LIE. Feel free to fill it out: [link]

I never thought Xander's motives were all that complicated. It was a split-second decision, or he wouldn't have even mentioned that there was a message.

I assumed Buffy & Willow would find out about the whole thing early in S3, and, like, be grumpy about it for 2 episodes and then get over it. I was always surprised that it was such a huge deal in the fandom.

I never thought Xander's motives were all that complicated. It was a split-second decision, or he wouldn't have even mentioned that there was a message.

Strega, you don't think his motives were complication but what do you think was going on with him--fear, jealousy, a need for vengeance, a firm belief all vampires need to die?

He changed his mind at the last minute, but re-ensouling Angel was something he'd had on his mind (and been against) for a while. He'd already had the argument with Buffy, when Buffy and Willow told the gang they found Jenny's transliteration of the enjoining spell. He was at the library prior to the first attempt (when Dru & the gang raided and killed Kendra). He also had had time between learning Willow was going to try the spell again (at the hospital), and meeting Buffy on the way to the mansion, to argue with himself over what to do.

I thought Xander's motives were incredibly complicated, but I also think he didn't think about it very hard -- that "kick his ass" came, for me, out of all the emotions Cindy named, all of a sudden.

That said, it didn't surprise me that it didn't come out, and we see as the show progresses that Xander can keep a secret (memfault on episode where he defeats undead high schoolers in the boiler room, for one). I was just pleased as punch that the lie came out in S7, knowing that the show was ending.

The Zeppo!

I knew I could count on you, you Xander fan, you.

I think he was thinking of Buffy. And that she'd finally committed to killing Angel, and it wouldn't help her to hear, "Well, actually, maybe you shouldn't..." Honestly, I think if she'd said, "I just don't know if I can do it, even now," he'd have told her that it might not be necessary. It seemed supportive, not vindictive.

The rightness or wrongness just didn't seem that important, I guess. We didn't see him agonizing over it, so I can't assume he was. And the way he says, "Oh! Willow told me to tell you..." is like he'd almost forgotten about it himself.