'Life of the Party'
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
And Ben, in that last manifestation appears physically beaten up, even though Buffy only pummeled Glory.
I remember this, but I didn't understand
My guess is, Ben and Glory both gambled (well) that Buffy wouldn't/couldn't kill Ben.
at the time. I could kinda see that.
I do wonder why Ben was a refuge for a physically pummelled Glory.
I do wonder why Ben was a refuge for a physically pummelled Glory.I'm not sure I get what you mean by this.
In general though, I think it was an act of will and skill on Glory's part, to be able to manifest at all. The Glory/Ben entity's natural state over most of the 25 years Ben was alive, was Glory imprisoned inside, with Ben being the primary physical manifestation, and retaining no memory of her actions/feelings/etc.
Glory probably wasn't strong enough to stay out, between the beating and the hole caused by Willow restoring Tara's mind. She probably also had little reason to. Why would she want to be on front line receiving end of Buffy's beating. By the time she and Ben processed what Giles was doing to Ben, I don't find it hard to accept she couldn't manifest. And maybe Ben even prevented her from doing so.
And maybe Ben even prevented her from doing so.
I remember arguing this point with my DH. I thought that Ben indicated with his acceptance of what Giles was doing that he was helping to hold Glory back.
And I hadn't looked at it this way - I'd totally forgotten about Tara's brain (because never a big Tara fan, and I can't really buy that giving up one little snack will ruin your whole life (and now someone replies that Tara's brain wasn't a little snack because, hello, witch! and I'm nesting parentheses so backing out) so I didn't see that as crucial). And I thought Glory was peaking with her ability to get out of Ben at will.
Basically, if I'm a god, and there's a team of mortals physically pummelling me with godlike amounts of damage, I'm not going to think hiding in a mortal is such a good idea. That's a big gamble to take that not only will Buffy not kill Ben, but no one else there (including a pissed off witch and a vampire) kill him...I mean, jeez, he could've been hit in the head with a brick and killed accidentally.
But if she got yanked back in because she'd taken too much damage, that I can buy. And hey, maybe Ben was yanking too.
All I know is that Ben looked a LOT like a guy I used to date, and I really wished I'd had Giles around to take care of that.
I don't think it was necessarily that Tara was such a big "snack" compared to Glory's other victims. I think it was that Willow reaching in and yanking back her mental energy/coherence/flobotnum was like puncturing a big unstable balloon. Glory seemed to have a big problem with incoherence in her debut episode—that brain-sucking people mitigated—and I get the impression she'd never been on the receiving end of the treatment before.
And I thought Glory was peaking with her ability to get out of Ben at will.I think she was at peak for most of the season, but then in The Gift (and possible in WotW), Ben seems to be getting some control (back?) too. That's how they have the argument with each other in the alleyway. Glory does not want him popping out in that alley, because she does not want him helping Dawn (or killing Dawn, which he goes to do--with a broken bottle, at one point), but he is able to, just the same.
As for Tara's brain...it is set up at the Magic Box. Willow tells Buffy that she's been tracking their essences (or whatever) and thinks she might have found a way to restore Tara. She says this in a confessional tone--and that she knows she should have been looking into ways to help Dawn and Buffy with Glory, but that Tara's been her priority. Buffy understands this, because it is after she's told the gang if any of them try to touch Dawn, she'll kill 'em.
Anyhow, Willow's point is, even though she's been looking into this to help Tara, it might hurt Glory, as well. Once Willow does it, it knocks all three of them down. Glory gets up really disoriented, and says there's a "hole" and really can't finish her sentences or anything. I don't necessarily think you have to accept that this was anything unique to Tara, if you don't want to. Every time before Glory sucked a brain, she was out of it. She's just had one removed from her, so of course it is going to weaken her. Also, I forgot this, but Buffy(bot--I think) had the Dagon Sphere at first, which was known to repel Glory, and had thrown it to Glory. Glory, of course, crushed it, but it still took a toll.
But if she got yanked back in because she'd taken too much damage, that I can buy. And hey, maybe Ben was yanking tooThis is mostly what I think the deal was. Ben wasn't a bad guy. Ben was weak, scared, and tired of having his life co-opted by the Hell Bitch. At first, he tried to protect Buffy and Dawn, even stabbing one of Glory's minions. He risked the Byzantium (which he seemed frightened of, in the hospital) when he went to help Giles in Spiral.
There are two places where his actions are less than honorable. He could have told Buffy the truth about Glory. It is totally understandable that he wouldn't though, because he knew she was the slayer, but did not know her well enough to know she'd try to help him, rather than kill him. Secondly, he didn't have to take Glory up on her offer of immortality. He did this, knowing that by giving over Dawn, he was allowing Glory to take an action that might end the world and would at least unleash all sorts of horror on the world, and he did this, knowing Dawn was an innocent who trusted him. But he was scared, and didn't want to die, and wanted to have his own life. He was desperate, and tired of fighting her. Also, I think it's likely that since Ben's feelings were beginning to taint and affect Glory, we can assume Glory's feelings may well have been beginning to taint and affect Ben.
All I know is that Ben looked a LOT like a guy I used to date, and I really wished I'd had Giles around to take care of that.Hee.
Cindy, I think the complete Gift previouslies was included as an extra on the Season 7 DVDs after fans got super-pissed. Too little too late, but there it is.
The Gift was my favorite episode for a long time. On infinite rewatch, it doesn't hold up as well, artistically, to me as, say, Restless or The Body, but it's still in my top 5. I feel it just as much as you.
Cindy, I think the complete Gift previouslies was included as an extra on the Season 7 DVDs after fans got super-pissed. Too little too late, but there it is.
Oh, okay, that is what I heard, and I just misremembered it. Thanks, David.
The Gift was my favorite episode for a long time. On infinite rewatch, it doesn't hold up as well, artistically, to me as, say, Restless or The Body, but it's still in my top 5. I feel it just as much as you.
I was a Bronzer then, and of course immediately after it aired, Joss came to the boards to say SMG would be back as Buffy, yada yada yada. I already knew this, in that I was certain UPN didn't shell out a bundle that the WB wasn't willing to shell out, in order to buy a Buffyless Buffy. I just wanted to scream at him, "get out, Get Out, GET OUT," because I needed to believe the story I'd been told for a little while, before I started thinking about the future.
Yeah, I actually watched season 5 first. And even after one season, that episode hurt me bad. I can't imagine what it must have been like after 5 years of getting to know her.
Then again, lots of people didn't feel it by then, so maybe I was lucky to watch it first. Taken out of the context of Seasons 1-4, it may be a better season. Not perfect, but so emotionally wrenching.
I found Buffy during season 3. I can't remember if I had seen all the past episodes by the time The Gift aired. I don't think I had. For a long time, there were just select episodes from seasons 1 and 2 on VHS. I did buy those. And I finally ventured onto the internet to hunt down all backstory, which is how I fell into fandom.
It seems to me the DVDs weren't released until after FX had aired [however many] seasons at least once. And it seems to me that FX didn't start airing the old episodes until after season 5, but I can't remember. I do know I changed cable providers, in order to get FX, and my children still hesitate to touch my VCR, because I was religious in taping, and labeling those tapes. It was so wonderful to watch so much New-To-Me Buffy, regardless of the fact that I already knew what happened.