Wesley: Illyria can be...difficult. Testing her might be hard without getting someone seriously hurt. Angel: We'll make Spike do it. Wesley: Good.

'Underneath'


Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!

Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.


§ ita § - Aug 29, 2005 10:33:28 am PDT #2008 of 10459
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

The + in that case is acting like quotes -- without either, it's not being literal about wooden -- it also searches on grammatical variations of the same stem.

I really wish it didn't default to that, though.


Topic!Cindy - Aug 30, 2005 1:58:31 am PDT #2009 of 10459
What is even happening?

Scott and I are still working our way through the BtVS episodes in order. Last night, we finished watching Choices. We'd fallen asleep during it, the night before. Next, we put on the disc with The Prom (sob) but I don't think I saw past the teaser, before I was out light a light.

Narrator, I thought of you during Choices, when the lackey vamp notes that Faith killed the courier who brought the Box of Gavrok, and she asks, "What are you, the narrator?" You took your board name from that, right?

We might have caught a minor continuity error in Choices. When the courier first arrives at the airport, he's looking for the Mayor. He expected the Mayor to meet him, with the money, personally. The lackey vamp has a briefcase with him, and says he's got the guy's money, right there. Later, when Faith returns to City Hall with the Box of Gavrok, the Mayor asks what happened to the courier, and notes that he was supposed to pay him. He takes out an envelope that appears to hold said payment, as he's saying he was supposed to pay him. Faith takes it, and then replies that she made the courier and offer he couldn't survive. I don't usually note those things. And I am surprised I noted one after all this time.

Season 3 had a nice steady build, all along really, putting forth the idea that Buffy and Angel just aren't going to be able to make a go of it, together. Tonight, it was the Mayor's turn to drive that idea home, but Spike, circumstance, and even Buffy's own desire for a break a few episodes prior, have done so, throughout the season. There are elements of season 2 that I prefer, and Surprise/Innocence and Becoming are always on my favorite episodes list. But all in all, I think season three had the best pacing. Season two's ideas may have been more exciting and certainly had a higher HSQ, since Angel himself was the Big Bad, but I think season 3 is tighter, somehow.

We'll try The Prom again tonight, I'm sure. And I'll have tissues at the ready, because damn, baby, that's a tear jerker. But in a way, Choices is a more special episode for me, or special in a different way. There are a couple of episodes like that in season 3. I'd have to go back and check to see which ones, and I haven't had enough coffee, yet. I think what I like about it (and those episodes like it) is that it isn't one of the big episodes.

I don't know how to convey this idea more clearly than to say that the sort of ordinary episodes have a particular charm. Don't get me wrong. I adore the big reveals, and the teary and painful moments. There's just something comfortable, and uniquely enjoyable about this show, when it manages to reel me in, with an episode I could have otherwise skipped, without missing the big picture. I like these little-picture-moments episodes, in a special way.


Narrator - Aug 30, 2005 3:52:09 am PDT #2010 of 10459
The evil is this way?

Narrator, I thought of you during Choices, when the lackey vamp notes that Faith killed the courier who brought the Box of Gavrok, and she asks, "What are you, the narrator?" You took your board name from that, right?

Yep. It seemed to me that any other posting name I thought of that was even half-way interesting was already taken. (There were other good names that came after mine, but I didn't think of them at the time I was selecting my posting name.) I figured no one had grabbed "The Narrator" yet, so I did.


Topic!Cindy - Aug 30, 2005 4:15:17 am PDT #2011 of 10459
What is even happening?

When I first went to the Bronze (and my first lurk was at the linear side), I was all set to post as "Closet Buffyholic" and when it was taken, I was so sad.


Polter-Cow - Aug 30, 2005 4:23:56 am PDT #2012 of 10459
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

What was your Bronze name, Cindy? I don't think it was the same as this one.


ChiKat - Aug 30, 2005 4:25:32 am PDT #2013 of 10459
That man was going to shank me. Over an omelette. Two eggs and a slice of government cheese. Is that what my life is worth?

Cindy, I'm doing the same thing. Just watched "Faith, Hope & Trick" last night. I love Giles all the time and this ep just confirms that love, "There is no spell." Also, nice foreshadowing of Willow's magic problems.


Steph L. - Aug 30, 2005 5:11:32 am PDT #2014 of 10459
I look more rad than Lutheranism

We might have caught a minor continuity error in Choices. When the courier first arrives at the airport, he's looking for the Mayor. He expected the Mayor to meet him, with the money, personally. The lackey vamp has a briefcase with him, and says he's got the guy's money, right there. Later, when Faith returns to City Hall with the Box of Gavrok, the Mayor asks what happened to the courier, and notes that he was supposed to pay him. He takes out an envelope that appears to hold said payment, as he's saying he was supposed to pay him. Faith takes it, and then replies that she made the courier and offer he couldn't survive. I don't usually note those things. And I am surprised I noted one after all this time.

How is that a continuity error? (I may not have had enough coffee yet, so any explanations will help greatly.)


Topic!Cindy - Aug 30, 2005 5:32:34 am PDT #2015 of 10459
What is even happening?

P-C, my Bronze handle was Xanderella. My kids were on a big Cinderella-watching kick by the time I finally de-lurked, and I found myself singing the theme song all the time: "Cinderella, you're as lovely as your name." When you're named Cynthia, but everyone calls you Cindy, you also get called Cinderella a lot (as well as Cindy Lou, and Cindy Lou Who). While I was lurking at the Bronze, I found myself singing "Xanderella, you're as lovely as your name," and thought, why not? Besides, the image of Xander in a Cinderella blue ball gown made me chuckle. I was hoping that in either Fear Itself or All the Way that I'd get a shout out by way of Xander's costuming, but it was never to be. *sniff*

Cindy, I'm doing the same thing. Just watched "Faith, Hope & Trick" last night. I love Giles all the time and this ep just confirms that love, "There is no spell."
Amen. ChiKat, as you progress through season three, watch how Buffy and Giles' relationship really gains some beautiful depth, once he's no longer officially her watcher. That he remains on the job and on the Hellmouth, after the Council fires him over the cruciamentum, and puts up with Wesley speaks volumes. They really develop a different facet of their friendship. It's just wonderful.

And really? It's all set up in Dead Man's Party, in that gorgeous scene when Buffy first returns and the kids bring her by his apartment. The tea kettle whistles, and he goes into his kitchen. The look of relief on his face says so much.

Also, nice foreshadowing of Willow's magic problems.
Oh, yeah. I've been noticing that. I think that's why I found some of the execution of her fall in season six (specifically the magic addiction, and how far behind it left the realm of metaphor) so disappointing. Her turn to the dark side was set up so well, and for so long.

Last week, while we were away, we didn't have any season 3 with us. I have random Buffy tapes at the cottage, and I did have a tape that included Fear Itself. Both Oz and Buffy are quite alarmed by her magic use. Does anyone know whether or not Seth's departure put off Willow's fall by a year or two? It seems like early season four was setting it up to happen later that season.


Topic!Cindy - Aug 30, 2005 5:34:49 am PDT #2016 of 10459
What is even happening?

How is that a continuity error? (I may not have had enough coffee yet, so any explanations will help greatly.)

Not continuity over the course of the series--just in this episode. The Mayor didn't go to the airport. The vamp who met the courier at the airport had the means to pay the courier in a briefcase. When Faith arrives in the Mayor's office, that vamp does not come in with her. He remains in the limo (Buffy beats info about the Box of Gavrok out of him). The Mayor is alone when Faith enters his office. He has an envelope that seemingly contains the payment, and comments that he had to pay him.


ChiKat - Aug 30, 2005 6:41:11 am PDT #2017 of 10459
That man was going to shank me. Over an omelette. Two eggs and a slice of government cheese. Is that what my life is worth?

The Mayor is alone when Faith enters his office. He has an envelope that seemingly contains the payment, and comments that he had to pay him.

I saw that as the payment the vamp had for the courier was for the box. The payment the Mayor had was for the vamp's service in picking up the box.