She did repent, because theologically speaking, repenting means turning from your sins. How else could you describe her giving up her demonhood? She didn't do any sort of penance, but that's not a core doctrine.

and there's no indication of any acceptance of JHC as her lord and saviour (or any mental disposition thereto). Needs a big wanky handwave, IMO.

Asked and answered already. There's no evidence that she had been introduced to any concept of God as we understand him. We knew an awful lot about her personal life, even what sexual fantasy scenarios she preferred, and how how she tortured people, but nothing about any sort of religious understanding, which tends to indicate she didn't have any sort of religious understanding. That she died a martyr's death would indicate she was serving God to the extent He had revealed Himself to her.

But, the verse didn't have all this theology. So all that's really needed is that she died a hero's death. Remember, it is canon (and repeated canon) that there isn't some sort of cosmic checksheet whereby it is okay for Buffy to kill the occasional human, just because she's mostly saved them (cf "Dead Things" and whatever season 3 episode after Faith killed the Deputy Mayor).

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But, the verse didn't have all this theology. So all that's really needed is that she died a hero's death.

I agree with the first sentence. I'm not sure about the second. I think that we don't know exactly why Buffy was in heaven. Darla was cursing God or denying God or something similar right before she was turned (the first time), tat could have doomed her to hell. Or being a vampire could have done it, I suppose. Do we think the spirit-Darla was evidence of her being in heaven after staking herself?

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If it's binary -- heaven or hell -- I think it's hell because she never repented, which makes me sad.

I'd argue that back in "Selfless" she showed contrition for the blood that was freshest on her hands, and in fact was willing to give up not only her life but her soul to restore the victims and put things to right. There was no prayer to the Christian deity, but she was clearly buying into a system of right and wrong at that point and willing to pay the price for her sins.

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I think that we don't know exactly why Buffy was in heaven.

This is what I hate about the (post?) modern age. Of course we know. She died to save the world, and prior to that, she lived a pretty self-sacrificial life, putting her own life, and the lives of her loved ones in jeopardy, to save people.

Darla was cursing God or denying God or something similar right before she was turned (the first time), tat could have doomed her to hell.

Or being a vampire could have done it, I suppose. Of course it did.

Do we think the spirit-Darla was evidence of her being in heaven after staking herself?

I'd have to rewatch, but I imagine that since her final act was to stake herself to save the baby, she was either rewarded or at least her punishment was mitigated.

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But, the verse didn't have all this theology. So all that's really needed is that she died a hero's death.

That's the issue, in the end. Too much unmixy things. I don't buy that deciding not be a demon anymore satisfies enough requirements to get her into a Christian heaven. Valhalla, I can accept no problem, but that wasn't the question. Joss played fast and loose enough with the theology to make it difficult to make a real call.

which tends to indicate she didn't have any sort of religious understanding.

Too wanky for me. She's very curious, and isn't a blank slate entire. She lives as an adult for years in a modern-California analogue, not in the wilds of Borneo. She knows enough to know that religion exists and that she doesn't get the Innocent pass, IMO. I think she's damned enough from her demonic activity to be barred the Pearlies without some kind of overt indication of repentance or acceptance.

Now, hero's death, valhalla, Slayer sidekick "heaven", whatever. Sure.

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Too wanky for me. She's very curious, and isn't a blank slate entire. She lives as an adult for years in a modern-California analogue, not in the wilds of Borneo. She knows enough to know that religion exists and that she doesn't get the Innocent pass, IMO. I think she's damned enough from her demonic activity to be barred the Pearlies without some kind of overt indication of repentance or acceptance.

I'm with JS on this one. Not only that, but her demon days involved a lot of cursing and 'venging in post-Christianity Europe, so she'd know from Jesus.

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I don't buy that deciding not be a demon anymore satisfies enough requirements to get her into a Christian heaven.

I never took Perkins question as a theologically deep questioning of it, but a sort of analogous use of it. It wouldn't just be that she stopped being bad, but that she started being good, and died doing so--the combination.

It's not an unorthodox idea in Christendom that someone who hasn't heard of Jesus in a way in which he is able to believe in him will not be damned. It's isn't just "never heard the words". It goes deeper than that.

I think she's damned enough from her demonic activity to be barred the Pearlies without some kind of overt indication of repentance or acceptance.

And dying by fighting The First Evil wouldn't be that overt indication? C'mon. Talk is cheap.

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This is what I hate about the (post?) modern age. Of course we know. She died to save the world, and prior to that, she lived a pretty self-sacrificial life, putting her own life, and the lives of her loved ones in jeopardy, to save people

What I'm not getting, and I haven't made this clear, I realize, is what can we apply from Buffy's being in heaven to judging the after death experiences of other characters. Do you have to die saving the world to get into heaven? If you save the world and live, do you go to heaven when you eventually die? If youre basically good? If you aren't really really bad? If you aren't a demon? I'm trying to figure this out within the context of the Buffyverse mythology, not my personal morality, and that's kind of hard.

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Darla was cursing God or denying God or something similar right before she was turned (the first time), tat could have doomed her to hell.

Or being a vampire could have done it, I suppose. Of course it did.

See, I don't get this. If I were turned into a vampire today, wouldn't my actions as a human be what determined heaven or hell for me, and not what happened to/with my body after I died?

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See, I don't get this. If I were turned into a vampire today, wouldn't my actions as a human be what determined heaven or hell for me, and not what happened to/with my body after I died?

Yeah - isn't it canon that the human soul goes away and the demon replaces said soul? Or am I remembering fanfic instead?

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