That was really fun to type, what with all the slashes.

Fred, Wes, & the Burkles? Aww, gross! Oh... you mean actual slashes. That's alright, I guess.

Well, Fred isn't really Fred. Illyria could participate for sure no problem.

Illyria could participate for sure no problem.

It might be a problem for the Burkles...

Hm. I was fine with the final scene between Illyria and Wesley, and I agree that Acker did a great job with all the shifts. If the Burkles hadn't been involved I could see it as a counterpoint to Spike & Angel's story, but since they were the only decent parents in the whole wide world, it seemed pointlessly callous.

And now I've been trying to say "Burkle Burkle Burkle." It's surprisingly difficult.

Oh, it's horrible TO the Burkles. They shouldn't cover up the heartlessness of not telling them about their daughter's death, but Angel's not there to take the moral high ground and let them know the truth.

Illyria's a demon. Wes is... well, end-of-season-five Wes was pretty scary, pretty crazy, not really the best person to expect good judgment from. His decision to go along with Illyria instead of exposing her had two purposes, I think: 1) he got to pretend, briefly, Fred was alive and 2) he got to research Illyria more. He didn't care about the Burkles.

But that didn't stop his pain from being amazing to watch, and analyze. Indeed, it makes it more interesting: Season 2 Wes would never, ever, ever have allowed the deception to continue. Also, AA's acting throughout was phenomenal, especially the transition scene. "Be blue," and the attempted... seduction? before it, is one of my favorite moments in all of season five, and probably in the entire series. So. Cool.

I also think that Wes' eventual rejection of the available Fred simulation also was the first step towards her (it?) eventually developing feelings for Wes. I don't think self-denial was something Illyria had encountered in any significant way before.

They shouldn't cover up the heartlessness of not telling them about their daughter's death, but Angel's not there to take the moral high ground and let them know the truth.

They = the characters or the writers? Wesley's nutzoid behavior made something like sense; it was trying to understand ME that took me out of that story. I felt like the Burkles were just a device to get Illyria to fuck with Wesley and we weren't supposed to see them as actual people. And the problem was, the Burkles are a lot easier for me to relate to than any of the main characters at that point, so I was horrified on their behalf and couldn't understand why the writers made that decision.

But thanks, all, for answering. I guess it's all meta-reasons that made it bother me so much.

I didn't hate "The Girl in Question" -- it's a farce, like "The Zeppo" or "Storyteller," though less well-done than either of the earlier episodes. I do think not having SMG hurt it a lot, but I didn't consider it a crippling blow. And AA and AD really did hit the Fred/Ilyria material out of the park.

My problem with the end of Angel was that it felt like they were at point K, and they knew they wanted to end at point Z, and they skipped over most of the material in-between. "Not Fade Away" isn't a bad episode, but I don't think the whole black circle thingie was earned. At all. And for that reason, I hated the end of Angel S5.

It always feels declassé to admit this, but ... I liked Spike. Liked him a lot. I think the soul was a mistake, and I think the writing on him was inconsistent, but I don't think any single episode or season would have been better without him.

And I'd be up for discussion of specific episodes. One way to do it might be grouping them into themed blocks -- say, "Dopplegangland"/"Hell's Bells"/"Selfless" as an Anya block -- and then discuss the block of episodes as a whole for a week, or a month, or whatever seems right.

It always feels declassé to admit this, but ... I liked Spike. Liked him a lot. I think the soul was a mistake, and I think the writing on him was inconsistent, but I don't think any single episode or season would have been better without him.

Hey. I like him, and don't even think the soul was a mistake. After that though, I'm in agreement with you. I think they didn't have a good plan for him, after the ensouling though, and the rest of his arc was not well written, or well executed.

I'm in for some sort of structured re-watching. That'd be fun, and allow me to get my thoughts out of my head and onto the screen where they can bounce off of Buffistas and become better.