Get up...get up, you stupid piece of... What did you do that for? What's wrong with you? Didn't you hear a word he said? All of you! You think there's someone just going to drop money on you?! Money they could use?! Well, there ain't people like that. There's just people like me.

Jayne ,'Jaynestown'


Natter 33 1/3  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Nutty - Mar 14, 2005 11:53:57 am PST #7156 of 10002
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

I agree that good public school are the lifeblood of a healthy democracy. Look how beautifully the voters being manipulated by half-truths and unconstitutional behavior at the moment

Point of order -- people have been stupid, easily misled, and willingly manipulated for as long as we've had democracy, and a lot longer. Demagoguery is not a new word.

Also, taken historically, if we could quantify education as N number of kids learning S number of skills and X number of other things (perspectives, facts, exposure to new ideas both practical and impractical), I bet that we still come out winning at this late date. Lots more people in the 18th-19th C signed their legal papers by making an X, because they couldn't write their names, than do now.


§ ita § - Mar 14, 2005 11:55:13 am PST #7157 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I agree that good public school are the lifeblood of a healthy democracy.

Can homeschooling destroy democracy? Even though we know it will always be a minority position?

I know that bad public schools could, but that's not the same thing.


Betsy HP - Mar 14, 2005 11:55:14 am PST #7158 of 10002
If I only had a brain...

I agree that good public school are the lifeblood of a healthy democracy.

Yup. The question is, what do you do when you're living in an area that doesn't value public schools?

For instance, when I lived in Massachusetts during the post-Reagan crash, some towns closed the schools in *April* rather than pass a school bond. The answer? "I know this is bad for the schools, but our taxes are too high."

Believe me, parents campaigned and held signs and sent out flyers. The town as a whole responded, "Education isn't that important to us."

That's when you say Screw this, I'm taking care of my kid, and I consider that a completely moral response.


DavidS - Mar 14, 2005 12:00:29 pm PST #7159 of 10002
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I think it largely is a moral question.

I'm wondering how I sit with this. I have some notion of "social virtue" that's different from "personal morality" - and the latter has the higher rung on my set of choices. But the social virtue is not unconsidered or unweighted.

And for many people that distinction would be useless anyway since their politics are personal and vice versa.


Trudy Booth - Mar 14, 2005 12:02:49 pm PST #7160 of 10002
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

Point of order -- people have been stupid, easily misled, and willingly manipulated for as long as we've had democracy, and a lot longer. Demagoguery is not a new word.

Sure. And it's easier to mislead uneducated people. The more we neglect the schools the more sheeplike the populace.

Also, taken historically, if we could quantify education as N number of kids learning S number of skills and X number of other things (perspectives, facts, exposure to new ideas both practical and impractical), I bet that we still come out winning at this late date. Lots more people in the 18th-19th C signed their legal papers by making an X, because they couldn't write their names, than do now.

And they could make a living, not so much the case today. Education is even more important now -- toss that adjustment in too.

That's when you say Screw this, I'm taking care of my kid, and I consider that a completely moral response.

Yes. It's still judged on a moral continuum though-- I can't agree that schooling decisions are purely pragmatic.


Trudy Booth - Mar 14, 2005 12:07:56 pm PST #7161 of 10002
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

I'm wondering how I sit with this. I have some notion of "social virtue" that's different from "personal morality" - and the latter has the higher rung on my set of choices. But the social virtue is not unconsidered or unweighted.

Personal morality outside of my nears and dears is of little interest to me short of illegal behavior that harms others. Marry six women or a goat as long as they're all consenting adults. Social virtue of others is of far more concern to me.


Jessica - Mar 14, 2005 12:09:25 pm PST #7162 of 10002
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

What is the age of consent for a goat?


Trudy Booth - Mar 14, 2005 12:12:56 pm PST #7163 of 10002
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

Not sure, but violating it is ba-a-a-a-a-a-a-d


juliana - Mar 14, 2005 12:12:59 pm PST #7164 of 10002
I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I miss them all tonight…

What is the age of consent for a goat?

Well, as long as it's not a kid....


Betsy HP - Mar 14, 2005 12:14:28 pm PST #7165 of 10002
If I only had a brain...

African or Asian goat?