I don't think smart kids suffer too much from mediocre schools. I think they'll excel anyway, and they'll get happy teacher attention.

I think that REALLY depends on the kid. And the teacher. I had some mediocre teachers, including one who told my parents how happy she was to have me in class, since she didn't have to pay any attention to me.

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ION, Bono enters the rag trade.

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Am I prepared to sacrifice my child's education to prop up the education of the country as a whole?

I'm not. I live in a town with a decent public school system, but my loyalty lies with my kids. If our schools were to go down hill or change in some way that I couldn't fight, but that I found unsuitable for my children, I wouldn't necessarily move, to keep my child in public school

I don't think there's a one-true-way with schooling, any more than there is with parenting (including sahm-ness, daycare, extended family care).

Is there a place for people without children in them to help fix the public schools?

Yes, there are fewer opportunities for non-parents or parents of matriculated students, but they're there. Most school committee meetings are open to the public, and there is a time for the public to comment on the matters at hand. Also, any financial sort of vote a person makes at the polls (re property taxes, etc.) affects the public schools.

As for the religious whackjobs -- if your agenda is (mostly) the one in charge, well, of course keep your kids in public education. But if they were being taught creationism, racism, sexism or homophobia, and you couldn't get the school to stop (or decided that's fine for those who're okay with the values, but not your kids), why not homeschool? I'm sure that's what it looks like to the "whackjobs."

Yes. There will be topics I will not want the schools to broach with my children. There may be topics I would be okay, in theory, with the school handling, but I may not like how our particular schools do it. There will probably be subjects I wish the schools would address, that they'll fail to. All schools are institutions, not custom built to our children, and the kind of input you have in a public school is different than what you might find in a private school.

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Then they should have been homeschooled to avoid the bad science, or find a university that keeps teaching it.

The point is, the parents and kids alike don't get that they're learning bad science till the kid is failing college Bio 101. The parents make a political decision without necessarily thinking through the practical needs of cultural (or scientific) comprehensibility.

(I expect it's possible to major in biology at, like, Bob Jones University, but then you'd be forced to get your doctorate at a similarly out-there school, and the pool of places that would give you tenure would be small. And that whole trajectory sort of depends on the student being able to decide "Yes, I'll be an outsider in my field for the rest of my life" -- and still being happy with that decision decades later.)

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The point is, the parents and kids alike don't get that they're learning bad science till the kid is failing college Bio 101.

Fair enough, but I think that for the informed parent, it supports homeschooling. Or not, if the informed parent agrees with what's being taught, and the effect it may have on Bob's PhD.

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I just want to note this: yes, those *are* choices, but sometimes, Hec, you come across as though the only correct choice is the one that you support. But really, there's often more than one correct choice.

Sorry Tep, I really don't feel like I'm making a judgement about individual choices here at all, and I've tried to make that clear. As noted, I don't expect anybody to sacrifice their child on a poor public education. I wouldn't, and I've paid for Emmett's schooling before, and it was the right choice at the time. There are way too many variables involved in the decision to make a blanket judgement on it (despite my tendencies.)

I see the trend toward home schooling dangerous to the democratic ideal which I value. First people pulled their kids out of public schools. Then they started pulling them out of school altogether. I don't think that's the right direction. People don't seem as invested or committed to public education as they once did. And also I dislike the shift toward closed, hermetic, anti-social parenting.

But both of these objections are matters to be considered on balance. On the respective scales, I think they both represent a shift away from healthiest/best social values (my opinion, obviously). But I would like to see the weights moved more to the middle. I would like to see the value of public education more heavily weighted and valued. I would like to see more recognition of the virtue of social connection and community, rather than Me/Mine/Ours.

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I haev nothing but pity for the kids who grow up in small-town Kansas, learning bad science about evolution

To be fair, Kansas isn't really that backward about evolution. I think evolution is actually still a required part of the science curriculum, but it probably will be made optional again pretty soon. Even then, it will still be taught most places.

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Actually, I don't think smart kids suffer too much from mediocre schools. I think they'll excel anyway, and they'll get happy teacher attention.

I didn't. I didn't excel after a point--and yet I didn't get teacher attention, because I was good. Every standardized test I took put me in the 99th percentile for every subject. Ever. Every one. I had the special IQ test, because the results of my standard IQ test everyone else took were so above and beyond. I got bored, lost all motivation, and sadly, was the oldest and only child, so my folks didn't know the ins and outs of the school system. I wasn't on drugs. I wasn't being abused. They just lost me at some point--this good, oh so bright kid. I wasn't the only one. I lived in a bedroom community of Boston, solidly middle class, with no huge social ills or crime issues.

I really don't believe that's an even bet.

I think a parent can make it better than even, with rigourous attention to detail -- in favour of homeschooling. I'm not saying all or most do, but that's a parental failing, not a failing of the premise.

I am with ita, here, even though I don't personally think my children and I are well served by me home schooling them. I can get everything else somewhere else. My kids can be in Scouts, sports, and other group activities. They get group socialization at church and in family situations. We live on a child safe street. We have playgrounds within walking distance. We can join the Y.

My kids are in public school because I think I'd be a stress freak if they were home, and because our particular little school is a nice little school, that a lot of dedicated teachers and parents work their butts off, to keep it a nice, little school.

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I do think it's insane that we are revisting the Scopes trial here in 2005 though.

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I have data entry on 150 records to do in the next hour. music is required. go go iTunes party shuffle.

I haven't seen another person in over an hour. gak.

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