It would have to be a 8 year old carcass.

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GRRR. I don't care if it's not me you're pissed at, I don't care if you're in a panic, I don't care if you're way way higher up in the company than me. Do not fucking ASSCAP me in the morning, ok?

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Yes, this. I just feel sorry for the child. The mother seems pretty fucked up to go to such lengths to conceive and then run the father through the ringer. That right there would tempt me to seek at least equal custody--to do what I could to insure the child's emtional well-being as best I could. Most of my sympathy in this case goes to the child.

Yep. Me, too. Cashmere, did your b-i-l ever get to know his daughter?

Couple was divorcing, young child (1-2 years old?) involved. Husband/father (not represented by counsel, BTW) didn't want to pay child support, offered to give up all parental rights. Judge didn't go for it, child support was ordered.

So, at least in the late '80s in WI in a divorce/child support context, the answer is no.

Can the father give up his parental "rights"? Yes, but that may not relieve him of his obligations to financially support his child. He may be relieved of those obligations if there is another able to take over -- either the mother or another person. What the government does not want is the child having to rely upon the support of the state when there is a financially capable parent out there.

Thanks, Fred and Narrator. It's a bit of an interesting situation. If both parents agree (or if the parent giving up the child goes through all the hoops, like posting legal notifications in the paper, etc.), they can both be free of their parental obligations. When they disagree, by one deciding to keep the child, it means both must fulfill the legal obligations (or go through whatever hoops are available to rid themselves of them) of parenting.

Well, if I lend two garden hoes to my neighbor, and he uses the garden hoes in a way a reasonable person would not expect him to do, i.e. tapes them to his legs and uses them as stilts, and then he falls down and breaks both his legs, am I responsible for his broken legs?

I think that pregnancy is not a reasonably foreseeable result of oral sex. (Depsite what all those abstinence-only "sex educators" may say!!)

Why should "foreseeable" assume everyone is decent? I have to equate his rights in this, to the rights of a woman who conceived as the result of a rape, because if I am alone in my apartment, I do not foresee conceiving that night. Heck, even if I go on a date with someone with whom I know I will not consent to intercourse, I am going to have to take some measure of responsibility, if conception takes place. If I climb into bed with my own husband, but say, "Not tonight, dear," and he disregards my refusal, I am still obligated to see that the child is cared for, in one way or another.

My question is not whether she deserves any sort of spousal support/palimony. The question is whether or not the child deserves the financial support of both parents.

When women conceive as the result of rape, they are not automatically free of parental responsibility because they conceive and bear a child as a result of rape. They are legally obligated to take responsibility in one form or another, because it is a hard fact of Nature. If they decide to continue the pregnancy, once the child is born, their legal responsibility increases, although it may be fulfilled by finding someone else who will take over the responsibility for the child. And those women don't even give permission for the "use" of their bodies in any way, to either the rapist, or the fetus. It is taken from them.

Why should men be held to a lesser standard where hard facts of nature are concerned? Granted, this man shares the trauma of unwanted, non-consensual conception, with any female who conceives as the result of rape, but he played a willing part in at least one of the steps necessary for conception--that is, he willingly made his sperm available to this woman. A female rape victim doesn't even give that much consent.

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Much more detailed Chicago Tribune article on the sperm thingie: [link]

(Login required. Dunno of there's a Buffista login for the Tribune. If folks want I could post the whole thing here.)

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tommyrot, the article came through for me, and I didn't even log on. Either I have before, and they've got a cookie on my PC, or there was a miracle.

Do you have a link for the related piece at the Wire?

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Wired - it's on the front page for today, right side, toward the bottom. Dunno what the link will be after today....

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Wired

Ah. That would explain why I couldn't find it at The Wire. Duh.

From the Trib article, it sounds like she hotly contests his version of events. How will they ever go about proving that? What a freaking mess.

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How will they ever go about proving that?

Sound like if he can't prove his version (which is unlikely) then he's screwed. Um... or something.

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If both parents agree (or if the parent giving up the child goes through all the hoops, like posting legal notifications in the paper, etc.), they can both be free of their parental obligations.

Caveat lector: A mother and father cannot terminate their parental rights just because they don't want a child. Their must be a place for the child to go besides the state foster care system, e.g. a family wishing to adopt. As Narrator said, it's to discourage parents from relying on the support of the state just because they changed their mind.

When they disagree, by one deciding to keep the child, it means both must fulfill the legal obligations (or go through whatever hoops are available to rid themselves of them) of parenting.

In a nutshell, yes.

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Why should "foreseeable" assume everyone is decent?

Well, because the next logical step is, a woman pawing through the garbage of some random man she's never met, in search of a used kleenex for her impregnation purposes. I guess I'm not assuming decency so much as reasonableness.

And I don't think I can accept your analogy to rape victims -- you seem to be making a lot of assumptions to serve your analogy, whereas the options available to rape victims make the whole situation a lot more messy than that.

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