NoBuys.

but I a lot of hip hop slang--any slang, really, isn't nice, on purpose.

True. But I wasn't thinking of the hip-hop crowd as using the reference. I'm thinking of assholes like my brother who look for any way to turn something into a derogatory phrase, whether it's against yuppies, African-Americans, Muslims, or any group that is not "one of us." I hadn't even thought of it as something someone might have used with pride. I think I'm turning into an old fuddy-duddy.

I'm wondering do any of us giving feedback know a whole lot about hip-hop slang? If so great. If not, might be better to get feedback from someone who does. IJS.

Huh, the first thing that came to my mind was "DriveBy", too. Especially when I think back to the stories of kids killing each other for their shoes. "A FlyBy driveby".

I'm wondering do any of us giving feedback know a whole lot about hip-hop slang?

Except the hip-hop world, especially the high-rolling hip-hop world, doesn't exist in a vacuum. There would undoubtedly be impact from the terminally unhip--of which I count myself in their number, for these purposes--that would need to be dealth with. I can just see "FlyBy driveby" being the kind of obnoxious phrase that would end up on a TV news broadcast.

Though, of course, Deb is fully entitled to mutter to herself, "My story, goddammit, get your oars out of there."

Nope, I'm weighing all the input. I like the idea of DriveBy being an actual incident-caused usage in the book - the negative result of something, and it sticks.

It's useful. It's all useful.

Well, I know a little something, not that I'm claiming to know it "on the hoof" or like somebody who's really in it does. Just from watching.

I'm not concerned with Fly-By-Night by itself. But you know not a lot of similarity to "FUBU". And based in part on "Fly" being one of the few pieces of hip-hop slang we know, and one that preceded hip-hop by many many decades. An author who shall remain nameless here once named a Japanese character "Sushi".

At some point you do want to find an intensive source for the language. Yeah I know you have Desmond; but you probably want to use him more for things he is sole source on. You may want to dig for essays written in hip-hop dialect, hip-hop song lyrics, - written sources. Better yet find a living source who has some familiarity. Back in the sixties do you remember that Time article where someone tried to explain that hippies used the term "bread" for money to show their contempt for it - without even realizing that the term "bread" was used by the beats, and I think even in the jazz age? Or some of the really bad movies that tried to capture the way the rock music world spoke? Just because you know some of the roots of hip-hop don't get overconfident about knowing what it turned into. Feedback from middle aged white people -fine part of the market. But I know you want to get it right; and our feedback is not enough to let you do that.

And even Erika's being apparently a hip-hop fan - that gives you something. But someone who knows what would be right or wrong in dialog - that's important too.

Yeah, it's true. By the time I've seen it, it's gone through some writers' and producers' hands.(good, smart, people, but it's not like living it, i"m sure. Just like most movies about disability are crap.) And I am just a "dumb white girl from Glendale" who has seen "The Corner" bunches. Good to keep in mind... the need for on the hoof source material. It is such a good point, I forgive you for putting years on me, Typo Boy.