I've noticed that attitude, too, Cindy. I don't WANT children, but that's my choice; one of the many reasons I've decided against kids is because it seems so fucking HARD to be a good parent. But it's a personal decision.

I DO have some experience with relative who I did sneer at because they stayed at home...but that was because they were neither contributing to their childern, their house OR the family checking account. But I don't think it's the choice a person makes that affects my opinion , more what they DO with their choice.

Did that make sense?

And, Deb, I have NEVER been part of a pair. This guy I'm dating right now is the first boyfriend I have ever had -- and I am STILL very independent.

So, it's really something I have had to struggle with, my my head. But I have come to the conclusion that society is just about 3or 4 generations behind me. So, pfft.

The guy I am dating now LOVES that I am smart...but he has admitted that he's a little intimidated, because he never finished college. I keep telling him that a college degree doesn't mean shit as far as how smart a person is, but he still talks about it occasionally.

See, I was never taught to pair-bond; it's part of my natural makeup. Nor do I think my own inclination turns me into a co-dependent flower, or weakens me. The two men I've pair-bonded with in this life are very different in some ways and scarily similar in others, but I'm always the Tough Mama in the relationship.

Do I strike you as not being independent?

I've noticed that attitude, too, Cindy. I don't WANT children, but that's my choice; one of the many reasons I've decided against kids is because it seems so fucking HARD to be a good parent. But it's a personal decision.

Exactly, it's a personal decision both ways, by sneer, I meant to convey there can be an attitude of, "That's all you're doing?" and I just think um...yeah, being responsible for the care of 3 vulnerable, impressionable, intelligent, loving human freaking beings.

I've seen people have the same attitude toward people who had a reputation for being smart in school and are now teaching (below a college level, but particularly elementary grade teachers). Hello? Don't you think it's a good idea to have smart teachers?

Do I strike you as not being independent?

There's not enough HA in the world.

"Coffee on my monitor" fails to measure my laughter when I read this. It was nearly pee my pants.

There's not enough HA in the world.

Heh. But exactly. My pair-bonding is of the raptor/wolf variety: fierce and protective. I couldn't have survived the years with Nicholas Rev.1 if I hadn't had a huge measure of independence; pair-bonding doesn't mean loss of self.

I mean, it can, but not always.

No, I agree. I think that's been my tendency as well. Actually, I might argue true pair-bonding can't mean a loss of self, because both halfs of the pair are needed, to make it what it is, together. It's like notes in a chord.

It's like notes in a chord.

Yes, this. A perfect fifth.

I don't think the majority of humanity is naturally inclined that way, or should be. I just know I am - and it doesn't make me stupid, or weak, or less Deb in any way.

Deb, I was -- BWAHAHA! -- not implying you weren't independent, at all. Just clarifying my own experience; i.e., that you were inclined (or fell into, whatev) pairedness, and I -- didn't. And boy, is it weird having a boyfriend for the first time at 33.

I've seen people have the same attitude toward people who had a reputation for being smart in school and are now teaching (below a college level, but particularly elementary grade teachers). Hello? Don't you think it's a good idea to have smart teachers?

The guy I am dating now LOVES that I am smart...but he has admitted that he's a little intimidated, because he never finished college. I keep telling him that a college degree doesn't mean shit as far as how smart a person is, but he still talks about it occasionally.

Oh, dude. This is The Boy (likes peas), entirely. Well, I think he has his Associate's degree, in something far beyond my ken, like electrical engineering or some such. Which is what I always tell him -- a degree doesn't mean shit compared to what he actually goes out and does with his funky brain.

And, to tie in the Likes Peas factor with this thread topic, last night The Boy let me sit and ramble on and on to him about POV in storytelling, and how tricky third-person can actually be, and then I segued into the Show, Don't Tell axiom (better known as Why Dan Brown Sucks Donkey Butt -- because I use Angels and Demons as my example of truly execrable writing that does nothing but tell tell tell). I stopped in the middle of my Show, Don't Tell tirade and said "Oh, god -- wind me up and I'll talk about writing all night long," and, bless him, The Boy said "I love listening to you talk."

Awwww.