Kaylee: H-how did you... g-get on...? Early: Strains the mind a bit, don't it? You think you're all alone. Maybe I come down the chimney, Kaylee. Bring presents to the good girls and boys.

'Objects In Space'


The Great Write Way, Chapter Two: Twice upon a time...  

A place for Buffistas to discuss, beta and otherwise deal and dish on their non-fan fiction projects.


Typo Boy - Nov 20, 2005 7:20:06 am PST #4938 of 10001
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

Organisation is mainly cosmetic. Were there suggestions about arranging it?

Yes, the macro organzation is fine. It is the medium organization that is bad.

OK this is book making a long and fairly controversial argument step by step.

So think about it this way:

To Prove: X

To prove X you need to prove A,B,C,D,...

For Each A, B,C,D, etc. you need to prove 1,2,3 etc.

OK so my approach was

Make clear what X was

Chapter A State 1, evidence for 1, ojections to 1, rebuttal of objections, 2

It was pointed out to me that the reader is going to get lost.

What I need to do is Outline X, and state that to prove X I have to prove A, B, C etc in the INTRODUCTION. In others lay out the whole chain of logic in the introduction.

Then in chapter A, say oK I need to prove 1,2,3 ect. to prove A. Only after outlining the whole chain of logic for chapter A do I provide the evidence, then deal with objections and rebutals to objections. So that by the time someone lookes at an empirical fact they know exactly what is for, and how it relates to other facts. Otherwise it just looks like constant digression and digression from the digressison. I think he is dead on about the problem. The solution certainly is one way to tackle, probably the best way. I've already had to reorganize a few times, so I''m letting it digest before setting proceding. I think what I'll do is create a new outline before I start actually moving material around. But before I do that I'm letting the material cool off over the weekend - talking about it ,but not reading or touching, so that it is a bit fresher to me when I start the new outline.


deborah grabien - Nov 20, 2005 7:23:38 am PST #4939 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

It was pointed out to me that the reader is going to get lost.

Yes. And yes, also, on the letting it settle and taking a breather so that it isn't completely as-is front and centre in your frontal lobes.

Have you considered working with someone in the field on this? Another writer on the subject, or an academic?


Typo Boy - Nov 20, 2005 7:33:43 am PST #4940 of 10001
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

A co-author would have been/would be great. But most of them have really heavy stuff already on their plates. I've asked; I have had feeback and help from a number of heavyweights, a lot of encouragement to keep working on it.


deborah grabien - Nov 20, 2005 7:35:20 am PST #4941 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

Oy. I suck at organisation, TB, but I'll be here cheering you on.

OK. On "Lost in Translation". This isn't a drabble.

Lost Between the Ear and the Heart

"Damn, that's pretty."

It starts out low on the piano's range, deep-voiced, mournful. Something about it is faraway, remote. It's as if he can't connect with it. I can; I'm just not sure I want to. Something about the piece is cutting at me.

"You like it, then? Good. You should."

It moves up into the midrange, a bit of dissonance, a lot of consonance. My stomach is tight, my eyes weighted with held-back tears.

"It's beautiful. Painful, though. What do you mean, I should like it?"

He looks up at me over the mile-long expanse of piano lid. Hands moving up the keys, taking it higher, sex and joy but it never hits the highest notes, the tiara tinkle as he calls it. Always, somehow, there's darkness, and love, and loss to come.

"I wrote it for you, lady."

It will be years before I can let myself believe him, years before I can listen to it again, years before I understand that he must have known what I couldn't know.


Amy - Nov 20, 2005 7:52:02 am PST #4942 of 10001
Because books.

Deb, that's gorgeous, and very painful. Still amazes how you find the language to write about music so well -- it's one thing I can *never* translate very well.


Allyson - Nov 20, 2005 8:00:39 am PST #4943 of 10001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

Insent, deb and Amy!

Happy to, if you want to send it to my profile address. What's this one about?

The book is about spending my formative years in retail, lessons learned behind the cash register.

This essay is supposed to be about figuring out that there's such a thing as a decent and kind pervert.


deborah grabien - Nov 20, 2005 8:20:08 am PST #4944 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

Allyson, backsent, bebe. My feeling is that you need the connection right upfront. Open with it. The awkward bits, such as they are, are right there near the beginning. If you have the theme right there at the start, the first half becomes history rather than exposition.

Still amazes how you find the language to write about music so well

Amy, there are days when I wish I could just shut the fuck up about it, already. Not likely to happen anytime soon, though. (edit: and if I did shut up, I wouldn't be writing Kinkaid. Meh.)

We're off to Napa for wine and olive oil and stuff. I'm-a take a break and start chapter eight tomorrow.


Amy - Nov 20, 2005 8:43:09 am PST #4945 of 10001
Because books.

Allyson, backflung. Really powerful essay. I think I said pretty much what Deb said above, if I'm reading her comments right. You just need to clarify where you're going in the essay a little sooner, I think.

What I need to do is Outline X, and state that to prove X I have to prove A, B, C etc in the INTRODUCTION.

That sounds right, although your explanation was confusing to me, but I'm awful at math and logic stuff, so I kept getting lost.

t /dumb

Amy, there are days when I wish I could just shut the fuck up about it, already.

Nah. Like you said, then no Kincaid. And I am a firm believer in writing what wants out.


Allyson - Nov 20, 2005 8:55:18 am PST #4946 of 10001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

Thanks so much to both of you!

Yes, Virginia, there really is a thesis statement. Duh.

I'm going back to Composition 101.

I feel like one of those people who calls tech support, hysterical, and when the help desk person comes all the way down to check the problem, finds that the computer is not plugged in.

smacks forehead

And sorry for not proofing before sending. Again, smacks forehead.


erikaj - Nov 20, 2005 8:55:44 am PST #4947 of 10001
Always Anti-fascist!

I've got a deadline tomorrow, typing up this interview...don't wanna. My honeymoon with the new "gig" did not last long. Blah. Tired of busting my butt for no dead presidents so twelve people can read it. Tired of over-enthusiastic crip chicks and their forty-seven !!! about everything. Tired of always being the loose cannon new guy everywhere I go. Tired of reading people that can't write(Not my interview subject...she is talented and articulate, just the boredom spilling over.) Does not befit the second coming of Leigh Brackett.(/faux flouncing) They don't know what genius rolls among them, that's all.