These are stone killers, little man. They ain't cuddly like me.

Jayne ,'The Train Job'


The Great Write Way, Chapter Two: Twice upon a time...  

A place for Buffistas to discuss, beta and otherwise deal and dish on their non-fan fiction projects.


deborah grabien - Aug 12, 2005 7:51:03 am PDT #3561 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

Dialect is way the hell tricky; the problem with writing it down, if it's a dialect or patois you're really familiar with personally, is that cognitively dissonant split between you (author you) knowing how it sounds, and how it's going to get to the brain of the reader with no articulation as a signpost.

So I'm with Cindy; if a given word in a particular dialect or patois has the same pronunciation as the end reader's language, spell it in a way the reader will mentally interpret.

Short form, "mi" would probably be better as "me", assuming it's pronounced that way. Also, I'd remove the excess letters (caan), because the English language reader is mentally primed to see that as a typo, not a word. And there goes your best shot at holding their attention.


§ ita § - Aug 12, 2005 7:54:33 am PDT #3562 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

"mi" would probably be better as "me", assuming it's pronounced that way

It's shorter than "me."

Also, I'd remove the excess letters (caan), because the English language reader is mentally primed to see that as a typo

That's a very good point -- but if you've set up with alternate spelling, haven't you altered their expectations? Risky, though.


deborah grabien - Aug 12, 2005 7:58:28 am PDT #3563 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

My main exposure to Jamaican patois were two brief visits and then a nice stint at Dolby in London. I seem to remember the "mi" sound as being closer to "mih" or "meh" with the long e, but it was a long time ago.


§ ita § - Aug 12, 2005 8:00:32 am PDT #3564 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

If I'm reading that passage out in accent, the "mi" is terribly short, almost swallowed by the word that follows it. And the word itself isn't in a stressed position anywhere in it.


Hil R. - Aug 12, 2005 8:04:38 am PDT #3565 of 10001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

the "mi" is terribly short, almost swallowed by the word that follows it.

Maybe just m', then? At least for when it means "my."


deborah grabien - Aug 12, 2005 8:07:48 am PDT #3566 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

Maybe just m', then? At least for when it means "my."

Hil's got a very good suggestion there, and a good point: differentiating between the "me" and "my" as written, somehow.


§ ita § - Aug 12, 2005 8:10:05 am PDT #3567 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

And keep it as "mi" when it means "I"? It's pronounced the same whether it means "me," "I," or "my," pretty much.


Topic!Cindy - Aug 12, 2005 8:11:36 am PDT #3568 of 10001
What is even happening?

Keep in mind with the following, I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just providing the rationale behind the answers I already provided, and those were provided with an assumption that the bulk of the readership would be English speakers who aren't too familiar with Patois. If I were writing for a Jamaican readership (and had any knowledge of Patois--which I don't), I would spell it the way a Jamaican would expect to see it spelled (if there is such a thing).

I can see that -- I don't think it would overly break the reading of it, except "mi" is used to mean "my" or "I" in that passage, and that might be misleading.

In other English dialects (some regions of England, as well as Ireland and Scotland), people say "me" as the first person possessive pronoun, that's why I'd go with "me" (assuming the vowel sound where you have "mi" is closer to a long "e" than to a long "i"). Sometimes, English speakers who use "me" in place of "my" say the word in a way that sounds closer to "may" (although shortened), but I'd still write "me".

I'd change "di" to "de".

Why? It's not pronounced that way, and it's not that much closer to the word it means, to my eye.

"De" is closer in spelling to "the" than is "di".

Also, I'd remove the excess letters (caan), because the English language reader is mentally primed to see that as a typo

That's a very good point -- but if you've set up with alternate spelling, haven't you altered their expectations? Risky, though.

Probably, but I'd want to get across that there were differences, without making it stick out. Um, let me see if I can give an example that explains better than that explanation. If I were writing a rural Southerner, I am not going to spell the word "pen" as "pin" just because the Southerner pronounces P-E-N as though it were a homophone to P-I-N (did I mean homonym--whatever, as if it sounded as though it were spelled the same as 'pin'). In his dialogue passages, I will probably spell "forgetting" as "forgettin'", but I won't spell it as "forgittin'".

That said, do Patois speakers consider Patois to be an English dialect, or its own language?


Topic!Cindy - Aug 12, 2005 8:13:00 am PDT #3569 of 10001
What is even happening?

Maybe just m', then? At least for when it means "my."

Oh, if it's a case of this, like m'dear, and m'lady, that's what I'd do, too.


Allyson - Aug 12, 2005 8:15:29 am PDT #3570 of 10001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

FWIW, erika, for better or worse, I forget about the chair until someone reminds me. Sometimes to your annoyance, I'm sure, because I then don't think about things like stairs when you're going to be visiting.

Because my whole experience with you is mostly in this environment, where all that's important is that your head works (and you know, not naming names, but a lot of people with working legs have faulty heads), it never really occurs to me to think about your legs when reading you.

So there's no crip baggage, really. It's all just honest. I think maybe part of it is that my head doesn't work right most of the time. I'm a mental illness crip. So I worry sometimes people are taking things easier on me, and they're telling me I'm bright and smart and a good writer so I won't go kill myself.

And because of that, I tend to hold the opinions of people I don't know much higher than people I do know. They can't be using the Allyson is Craxy Filter if they don't know I'm Craxy.

In this environment, where all of us are sitting on our asses and typing, the crip stuff doesn't matter, I think. Ballroom dancing class? Different story.