Historically speaking, a lot of the "sex is bad" attitudes came hand-in-hand with the early church (read: Catholic) patristric writings that also ramped up misogyny. It was done, in large part, as a way to make the newly created institutional celibacy seem more attractive. If sex is bad and women are bad, why need them? Give them up and become a priest!

I kept trying to write about this -- and my thoughts and words got tangled - thanks for haveing a more organized brain, Chikat.

While my religious background did stress that sex outside of marriage was bad, it wasn't because sex was bad.

See, I just can't see this as a sex-positive message, no matter how much fun they might have said it would be once you got married.

While my religious background did stress that sex outside of marriage was bad, it wasn't because sex was bad. Quite the opposite. Sex is a gift from God that should be saved and given to the right person (ie, spouse) and would be wonderful.

This is what we were taught, but it's some of the stuff that went along with it that I think was harmful. We (and by we I'm referring to my college fellowship group, not the Baptist church of my childhood) were taught that ANY expression of sexuality pre-marriage WHATSOEVER was a sin. Sexual fantasies were wrong. Masturbation was wrong. Reading romance novels, even relatively tame ones like traditional Regencies, was wrong. When dating, anything beyond holding hands and *maybe* the occasional chaste kiss was wrong. I knew several couples who intended their first kiss to be when they were pronounced husband and wife. Sex was a wonderful gift of God, but you weren't supposed to open it, nor even look at it too closely, until you were married.

So even though I did wait until my wedding night to actually have sex, I was and am a pretty big sinner by my collegiate standards.

I think that sex-is-bad may be more common now. But not from Church teachings.

I think it's since the advent of AIDS, scare-tactics/ heavily abstinence (even if not abstinance-only) SexEd is really common, and promotes pretty screwed-up attitudes toward sex. It kinda melds, in my head, with religious abstinence-preaching and forms this monlith, which I know is not really the case.

I just can't see this as a sex-positive message

What about it pings you that way?

were taught that ANY expression of sexuality pre-marriage WHATSOEVER was a sin.

I'm lucky that I was not taught that at all.

I don't remember sex ever being mentioned in my church. Granted, I was a phenomenally unaware kid, but I was a regular attendee of my hometown church well into college. I remember not one lesson that pinged any awareness of what men and women did together. Maybe they were too subtle.

Maybe they figured I was safe since I was dating the preacher.

Well, a girl finds enough time to wish lovely lexine a happy birthday and comes back later to a whole new thread. Hmph.

At least I got in under 100. And I got to see ChiKat and the boy! Awwww!

I want this cooooat. Waaah. [link]

Wow, what i day to miss. So here's the post where I reveal my secret conservative Christian upbringing that I have kept so carefully hidden from ya'll for the last year for fear of ridicule (note: that was said with a certain amount of tongue-in-cheekness.)

I'm pretty sure Jim Elliot (the missionary who started this conversation) went to my college. Or maybe his wife did, I don't exactly remember. I was raised in a home and went to a college both of which were pretty conservative, although thinking was actively encouraged.

Personally, I think it is incredibley unfair to decide that a person who has more conservative views than yours is somehow a stupid or unthinking person. While I reject blind followers of all political stripes, I have only respect for those who have thought out their beliefs and chosen a path that is right for them. It's hard to believe in diversity and tolerance any other way.

I waited until my wedding night (at age 20) to have sex with my husband. Three years later, we divorced (a side issue here). My now-husband and I had lots of great sex before we were married. With my first husband, it was much less complicated although it was (is) definitely more fun and exciting with Joe. I think it's a trade-off. I don't regret either choice, I guess.

I'm not who I was when I was 20. I'm more open on some issues and less tolerant on others. I object to much of today's conservative right morality because I do think it is shame based and it doesn't leave room for differences of opinion. But that doesn't mean that waiting until you are married is a stupid choice.

The "Passion and Purity" discussion is bringing back some interesting memories.

I would really love to know more about the historical context of the "sex is a good thing but meant for marriage" message. If it originated in a time/place when sexual abuse of children was commonplace and accepted or when destitute women had little choice but to prostitute themselves, etc., it could put a different spin on the message.