And magically, I appear!
So... Monday, March 21... we're doing the cajun thing with Lee at Heaven On Seven. Time and which location (downtown vs Wrigleyville) are negotiable.
Saffron: He's my husband. Mal: Well, who in the damn galaxy ain't?
'Trash'
Spike's Bitches 22: You've got Angel breath
[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risque (and frisque), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.
aurelia - Feb 18, 2005 9:33:06 pm PST #2036 of 10001
All sorrows can be borne if you put them into a story. Tell me a story.
Lee - Feb 18, 2005 9:39:20 pm PST #2037 of 10001
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.
Funny how that happens.
aurelia - Feb 18, 2005 9:45:46 pm PST #2038 of 10001
All sorrows can be borne if you put them into a story. Tell me a story.
It's an illooooosion. The IM is quicker than the eye.
Anne W. - Feb 19, 2005 2:38:38 am PST #2039 of 10001
The lost sheep grow teeth, forsake their lambs, and lie with the lions.
In my philosophy, no one has a right to take another person's life for any reason because this life is all a person gets, and taking it away means annihilating them forever.
I love how you put that, Jen. I've heard non-atheists claim that atheists don't value life as much because they don't believe in an immortal soul, but this phrase hits that argument right below the waterline.
What fascinates me about these discussions is that so many different belief systems seem to arrive at similar conclusions (life is precious, we need to take care of this planet, we need to make sure that the downtrodden are protected, etc.) from entirely different starting points.
Anne W. - Feb 19, 2005 2:41:52 am PST #2040 of 10001
The lost sheep grow teeth, forsake their lambs, and lie with the lions.
Coffee and crackers:
The realtor comes on Monday to take pictures of the house. I have today and tomorrow to finish up most of what needs to be done. Things that won't show in photos or that can be discreetly hidden don't have to be done, but there's a lot left to do.
How stressed out am I over the house thing? Let's just say that three out of the past four nights I have woken up at 2 am with an upset tummy and a brain that won't turn off.
DCJensen - Feb 19, 2005 3:16:19 am PST #2041 of 10001
All is well that ends in pizza.
Happy Anniversary Kat & Lori!
Happy Birthday Beverly!
vw bug - Feb 19, 2005 3:35:13 am PST #2042 of 10001
Mostly lurking...
What fascinates me about these discussions is that so many different belief systems seem to arrive at similar conclusions (life is precious, we need to take care of this planet, we need to make sure that the downtrodden are protected, etc.) from entirely different starting points.
Yes. This.
How stressed out am I over the house thing? Let's just say that three out of the past four nights I have woken up at 2 am with an upset tummy and a brain that won't turn off.
Poor Anne! And good luck. I have total faith in you. You're gonna get it done.
Happy Anniversary, Kat and Lori!
Happy Birthday, Beverly!
Why is it, no matter *what* time I go to bed, I can't sleep past 8am? It's the one stupid thing about the new medication. Actually, I suppose it's a good thing, but it still makes me crazy.
Anne W. - Feb 19, 2005 3:39:34 am PST #2043 of 10001
The lost sheep grow teeth, forsake their lambs, and lie with the lions.
Poor Anne! And good luck. I have total faith in you. You're gonna get it done.
Thanks! I still need to find work in St. Louis, but I think I'll be able to pay more attention to that next week once the house is actually on the market.
vw bug - Feb 19, 2005 3:44:11 am PST #2044 of 10001
Mostly lurking...
I still need to find work in St. Louis, but I think I'll be able to pay more attention to that next week once the house is actually on the market.
That makes MUCH sense.
Topic!Cindy - Feb 19, 2005 4:02:47 am PST #2045 of 10001
What is even happening?
Happy Birthday, Beverly
Happy Anniversary, Lori & Kat
(who will probably never see this, and so I should xpost in Natter)
How stressed out am I over the house thing? Let's just say that three out of the past four nights I have woken up at 2 am with an upset tummy and a brain that won't turn off.Anne, you'll do it, girl. Break it into chunks. Take breaks. Don't forget to eat, drink and pee. You'll do it.
I love how you put that, Jen. I've heard non-atheists claim that atheists don't value life as much because they don't believe in an immortal soul, but this phrase hits that argument right below the waterline.
Yes. Wow, some people are stupid. Feel the love flow through me, but really (!!!). If we remove the stupid people from the discourse, we are still left with the inarticulate. If we remove the inarticulate, we will still have to contend with the usually articulate people, who suffer bouts of footinmouthitis (which is pretty much everyone).
That I believe all goodness comes from God, does not mean I think only those who know God can be good. In fact, I *know* from experience the opposite is true, because I know atheists, other non-theists, and agnostics who are good.
I think some non-atheists have trouble with that idea, either in the conceptualizing of it, or the articulation of it. The counter charge to the idea you've heard Anne is, of course, that those who believe in an afterlife, lack the appropriate reverence and respect for the earthly lives of others, and fail to show the appropriate care in their own actions and decisions.
Neither charge is particularly useful, in my opinion. Even if it could be proven that the logical outcome of either an atheistic philosophy or a Christian philosophy is a lower opinion/treatment of (earthly) life, what evidence do we have that humans are this logical and consistent in their thinking, and actions?
I have read discussions in that vein by Christian writers, and even where I see the point as it pertains to potential abuses inherent in atheism, the good writers allow that there is potential for abuse present in any belief system, because humans hold the beliefs, and they also take care to note that there are good and bad people in every belief system, because people don't just fit in a box, like that.
I have not seen any philosophy that does not have a built in potential for abuse. I think that where the potential for abuse lies in a given system, depends on the elements of that belief system.
I have a really hard time dealing with the death of a loved one because I believe they're completely gone. I don't believe my grandmother is watching me from Heaven. I don't believe she's gone to a better place. I don't believe her soul lives on. I don't believe that she'll be waiting at the end of the tunnel of light for me when I die. She's dead, and she is gone from my life forever. That's a pain that will never leave me.
Perhaps strangely, the idea of my own death and subsequent non-existance doesn't really bother me all that much. It probably will as I get older and closer to it.
Jen, I don't think it's strange. When I indicated upstream that I think I would find it comforting to have an atheist's outlook on death being final, I have to say, I only meant that as it pertains to me. The death of loved ones? Not so much. I'm way on the other side of the stream. In fact, I am on the opposite side of what is probably an entirely different stream, most likely on another continent.
I have felt their presence (of some of them), though. I know this can't be "evidence" to you, or to anyone but me, but the few times it has happened, I have known it is real, and so it is evidence for/revelation to me. I suppose this is much like what Susan described regarding her prayers.
On a more positive (to me, anyway) note, I'm pretty sure my admittedly extreme beliefs in nonviolence and veganism come from my disbelief in an afterlife. In my philosophy, no one has a (continued...)