I think the ones I do regret was that there was a pretense of emotional intimacy that wasn't really there.

The pretense is the ick for me too. Please don't propose marriage after picking me up, but right before sex. If you still know me in a week, it would still be too soon.

So there's the idea of not knowing them well enough to predict they'd insist on watersports with Fido -- that I'd regret, but just knowing them as a person, can make things better, but isn't required.

::Nodding like crazy::

For me, emotional intimacy comes from truly knowing a person, not from sex.

But the religious right certainly doesn't speak for all christians.

No, but they are the ones currently making the rules for the rest of the country, which means somebody voted for them. A lot of somebodies. And that's damn scary.

On this, I'm with Hec.

I was really religious until well into my undergrad years. Now I'm an athiest. If I had to count my sexual partners I think it would take paper and pencil.

emotional intimacy comes from truly knowing a person, not from sex.

ABSOLUTELY!! Umm... sorry for the yell, but yes. This. Exactly.

Please don't propose marriage after picking me up, but right before sex. If you still know me in a week, it would still be too soon.

And, on that note, my Lil Sis is for sure getting married on Feb. 26th. She's been dating the guy for 2 months. 60 DAYS. Yep. Not real thrilled about this. Good news, I guess, is that she's not pregnant. I flat out asked. And, I believe her that she's not.

vw, it's important to remember the beauty of Appalachian life, too. It's tough and sad sometimes, but I also know that some of the happiest people I know come from Eastern Kentucky (and still live there). I'm a little miffed that your prof is showing something like "Deliverance" and not showing something a little more up to date and a little less prejudiced towards mountain people. Do check out "American Hollow" on your own if you can. Also, if you would like something else, check out "Song Catcher". It's got some great singing and also has scruffy Aidan Quinn. And Iris Dement has a cameo singing.

Oh, Cashmere, worry not. We’re getting to see that side too. This is the class with 7 books (ok…actually, two of those are cds). Our next book is supposed to show a much happier side of mountain life. Oh, and we’re reading Song Catcher too. She’s very much going to be showing us both sides. I just kind of wish she hadn’t started with something so graphic.

vw, I wishwishwishwish I could get you a picture of my great-uncle Joe. My dad has this huge portrait of him hanging in their living room. He served in WWI, came back to Kentucky and ended up getting shot while riding his mule through a hollow in 1957. The official story is that he was involved in a "land dispute". Mom says he was killed by a jealous husband. I have so many stories from my Dad and Grandpa. I would LOVE to sit in on that class with you.

Oh wow! We may need to talk… There is one kid in my class who grew up in Appalachia. Most of his family is still there. It’s interesting hearing his perspectives on stuff. Unfortunately, I completely disagreed with him on something today and made myself look really stupid, but oh well.

vw, are you reading any Fred Chappell in your class? He was one of my grad school teachers. His version of Appalachia is not quite so bleak as the one in the scary book.

Not that I know of… I’m gonna have to take notes from the board of all these other great things to check out!

vw, I read a review of the book you're reading, and the last section is supposed to be quite funny in a satirical way. Of course, one person's satire is another one's gut-wrenching horror. The whole book is supposed to be funnier than not.

My prof told us that there are reviews out there like that. That’s not how she sees or teaches it, though, and it’s not how I read it. I mean, it may be a bit satirical, but not in a funny-ha-ha way. It’s more angry than anything, I think.

Aren't we cute??

Absolutely! So cute!

Slut?

Jen! You were in the Fall Watermark! And I just saw it earlier this week. I suck! But you’re cool!

OMG, you people got so chatty while I was in class!

I don't have any respect for creationism (sorry, vw).

As long as you’re not saying you don’t have any respect for me, I’m cool.

And other than that, I’m going to stay out of this topic for now. It’s a heated subject with me and brings along much baggage. And since I just dealt with a week’s worth of baggage in my Mountain Tales class (where I wanted to slap a really ignorant student who was convinced that certain things just. don’t. happen. in the real world…things that have happened to me…things that aren’t appropriate to talk about in a classroom setting…), I’m just gonna pass on the issue.

Wheaton, maybe?

Yep, that's it.

Both of my brothers graduated from Wheaton.

No, but they are the ones currently making the rules for the rest of the country,

Yes, this. My mom is a devout churchgoer and has spent the last few months at millions of meetings because the conservative wing of the Episcopal Church wants to force policy to change, because the church voted to allow gay clergy. She feels as if the standards of tolerance and aceptance and activism which made her church home to her her whole life are being taken away and this scares and saddens her.

From way back:

What about it pings you that way?

It's much more a marriage-positive statement than a sex-positive one, and it seems to ignore the idea that you can have abusive, horrible sex with a spouse (even one who started out nice) and wonderful, tender, deeply emotional sex with someone with whom you haven't signed a marriage license. It also neglects the wonderful sexual relationships formed by people who couldn't be married even if they wanted to, except in Massachusetts.

The statement puts a condition on the enjoyment of sex that is unrealistic for some, unappealing for more, and impossible for others.

Sex-positive, to me, means that (provided everyone is a consenting adult) sex is good. Period, end of sentence. Marriage, monogamy, and declarations of love and eternal fidelity are all optional; none of them definitely make sex better in any moral or satisfaction-rating sense.

Sex-positive, to me, means that (provided everyone is a consenting adult) sex is good. Period, end of sentence. Marriage, monogamy, and declarations of love and eternal fidelity are all optional; none of them definitely make sex better in any moral or satisfaction-rating sense.

Jen, would you mind terribly if I saved this and used it every time someone tells me that I can't possibly be sex-positive because I'm married, monogomous, or not bi-sexual? It would save me a lot of ranting and hand-waving.

I think that our society treats sex (get ready for a big contradiction!) both too casually and too seriously.

To me this parses as "we don't treat sex honestly." And I think that we don't because there are many competing agendas about what we should be doing with our bodies.

As long as you’re not saying you don’t have any respect for me, I’m cool.

I do respect you.

Me too. (Which is pretty surprising, given how generally intolerant I am of Hec's tendency to oversimplify moral/social issues. But on these...yeah. Right there with him.)

Uh..Woo hoo?