But there are times I wish I had a CS degree....

Same here. Though it'd mostly be something to point at and go "See this, pay me more."

I mean, I can't imagine starting a Computer Science degree without any programming experience.

I can. You show up at college from a high school with no programming courses.

It's like the women who show up at engineering school with the required math and science background but no tinkering experience. I knew a husband/wife pair of engineers; she didn't do as well on class projects as he did because he was more used to handling a soldering iron.

I used to be really peeved at competing with the guys with lots of programming experience until I considered all the reading experience I had, all the reading I did for pleasure, and how young I'd started.

College isn't a standing start; lots of people show up Freshman year with a lap ahead on the track.

All my post-high school CS studies were in AI theory, no programming involved, and nope, no CS degree here. My job positions are basically Tech Monkey types, where a wide base of knowledge is a good thing, because you're mostly the finger for whatever hole springs in the dike.

(I'd have had to go for another year for a dual BA/BS, and that would have been costly, and still wouldn't have given me much in the way of programming.)

There's not a degree in the world that could help me do PC support. But those are intrinsic personality/aptitude issues on my part.

Most of what I do is programming database stuff.

Where did you get the experience/knowledge necessary for this? On the job? How do you feel about your ability to switch up programming platforms, and also to read other people's code?

You show up at college from a high school with no programming courses.

That's what I did. However, since I was really interested in computers, I bought one, wrote programs, got a tutor and took the Comp Sci O Level that my school didn't offer, and led a computer club at school that won the London finals of the British Computing In Schools (or something similar) competition.

Me? Not a self starter. But I wouldn't pick college as the time to sample and decide. I understand, however, that North Americans show up undecided -- but isn't that what the first year is for?

I used to be really peeved at competing with the guys with lots of programming experience

Why? What stopped you from getting it yourself?

I realized that I had made choices, and that I would infinitely rather be reading another book than writing another program. I was telling myself something rather important, once I actually paid attention.

doodly doodly doo.

My grad school (information studies) was very light on actual programming, and fairly heavy on theory. I mean, I learned conceptually what a Markov model is, without learning a thing about how they're worked out (stupid professor), but the idea was to be able to wrap your head around a thing, not to actually build the thing yourself unless so inclined.

Thus, we designed databases by drawing boxes on whiteboards for 8 weeks before being allowed to start farting around in SQL. Of course, I designed a lovely whiteboard database that could not be queried in a useful way, because MySQL couldn't do what I wanted it to do without my learning a whole other semester's worth of code.

It was a win some, lose some type of situation. The prof gave me credit for stumping the computer within the scope of the assignment.

My job positions are basically Tech Monkey types, where a wide base of knowledge is a good thing, because you're mostly the finger for whatever hole springs in the dike.

See, that's what I found my degree gave me. It was years before I had to program in a language I'd learnt there (Modula-2, Pascal, C, FORTRAN, assembler). I figured it taught me how to learn to program, and the database modelling and logic are still invaluable, although I adamantly refuse to code for money these days, what with me not liking to do it and everything.

I'm sure there are times when the person I'm talking to wished I didn't have a CS degree or programming experience, but on the average, I'd not let go of it, not for a second.

I would infinitely rather be reading another book than writing another program.

I went to school to do CS because I loved it passionately. Having had that love since 13 meant that ... oh, a whole lot of free time went into its care and feeding. So the showing up undecided and inexperienced is an alien mindset for me.

bon -- the numbers in law (or law school) are close to 50/50 M/F?

eta:

the idea was to be able to wrap your head around a thing, not to actually build the thing yourself unless so inclined.

This is what it's easier to get in school than in the real world, and what I think too few of my co-workers (1 would be too few, because I'm snippy like that) have, and I cherish.

I went to school to do CS because I loved it passionately. Having had that love since 13 meant that ... oh, a whole lot of free time went into its care and feeding. So the showing up undecided and inexperienced is an alien mindset for me.

I didn't show up inexperienced and undecided. I showed up inexperienced and decided, and only slowly realized that my decisions weren't completely appropriate. Look, I love computers, I love CS, I'm just not a programmer.

All I am saying is that for many people college is where they discover a vocation; they don't necessarily show up with the advanced skills that make that vocation possible. It's rough competing with an alum of the Bronx High School of Science in anything; it's rough competing with a pre-existing programmer in CS.

Most of what I do is programming database stuff.

Where did you get the experience/knowledge necessary for this? On the job?

Yes. I've always found database stuff to be interesting and fun.

How do you feel about your ability to switch up programming platforms, and also to read other people's code?

Not as good as I would like, which is why I wish I had learned more "hard core" languages like Java or C++ in school. But with a little study I can always figure out someone else's code.