It's because you didn't have a strong father figure isn't it?

Joyce ,'Chosen'


Firefly 4: Also, we can kill you with our brains  

Discussion of the Mutant Enemy series, Firefly, the ensuing movie Serenity, and other projects in that universe. Like the other show threads, anything broadcast in the US is fine; spoilers are verboten and will be deleted if found.


DCJensen - Feb 01, 2007 7:55:38 pm PST #9485 of 10001
All is well that ends in pizza.

I thought it was to fall and miss the ground.

Indeed.

The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy has this to say on the subject of flying. There is an art, it says, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Pick a nice day, it suggests, and try it. The first part is easy. All it requires is simply the ability to throw yourself forward with all your weight, and the willingness not to mind that it's going to hurt. That is, it's going to hurt if you fail to miss the ground. Most people fail to miss the ground, and if they are really trying properly, the likelihood is that they will fail to miss it fairly hard. Clearly, it's the second point, the missing, which presents the difficulties.


Kevin - Feb 02, 2007 2:34:48 pm PST #9486 of 10001
Never fall in love with somebody you actually love.

Booster update, if anybody is wondered -- they put themselves into bankruptcy a few days ago, in Minnesota (rather than Oregon). However, there are rumblings online that the feds are plannin' things, but asking people not to post about it in detail online yet.


dcp - Feb 03, 2007 12:21:20 pm PST #9487 of 10001
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.

Wonderful vid, Juliebird. That's a keeper.

Even though I still really really hate the "first rule of flying" speech.


Juliebird - Feb 03, 2007 6:32:43 pm PST #9488 of 10001
I am the fly who dreams of the spider

thanks a bunch, dcp!

Lots of hard work, time, and love went into that vid.

Why do you hate the speech?


dcp - Feb 04, 2007 4:00:18 pm PST #9489 of 10001
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.

I like the message, just hate the metaphor used. I posted about it at dcp "Firefly 4: Also, we can kill you with our brains" Oct 15, 2005 10:00:21 pm PDT

I used fly sailplanes, and I still miss it. It makes me take stuff about flying in books/movies/tv shows too seriously.

Pictures: [link]

I've drabbled about flying a few times.
dcp "The Great Write Way" May 18, 2004 8:20:34 pm PDT
and
dcp "The Great Write Way, Chapter Two: Twice upon a time..." May 23, 2005 1:34:57 pm PDT
and
dcp "The Great Write Way, Chapter Two: Twice upon a time..." Oct 24, 2005 7:08:25 pm PDT


If you were to ask me, I'd say the first rule of flying isn't "Love." It's "Don't die." There is a famous old quote:

Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.

— Captain A. G. Lamplugh, British Aviation Insurance Group, London. Circa early 1930's.

Space -- "the black'' -- can also be included in that list. Love may be what Mal finds keeps him going, it may be what makes Serenity a home, but it won't "[keep] her in the air when she oughta fall down, [tell] you when she's hurting 'fore she keens." I really wish Joss had used a different metaphor for that speech--one not involving flying and vehicle maintenance.

t /rant


Juliebird - Feb 04, 2007 4:49:50 pm PST #9490 of 10001
I am the fly who dreams of the spider

curfew's in a half, so I'll check those out later, but I'll add my own gripes about the speech: Kaylee had plenty of love for Serenity and everyone around her, she knew she'd fail soon "tells you she's hurting before she keens", and Mal let penny-pinching get in the way of making her well, and Serenity broke and the Home had to be abandoned and the Family broken up in Out of Gas.

The reason I love the speech on a non-literal level is a subject that I've touched on twice before in my vids: most blatantly in "Prep for Flight". The idea that you can do what you need to survive, but you're not really living, because you're not loving. And if you can't love, you're not flying. It's almost counter to the concept of "keep flying". I've actually grown to hate "keep flying" because of it, because it means that one is surviving on the most barest limits, and not actually living.

Not actually doing the things that constitute having a life: love, family, home. That "keep flying" isn't as worthy as actually Flying. And Flying means letting yourself fall, means stop trying to survive, and start living, loving, even if it means you crash, and maybe you burn. And maybe you don't come back from that. You don't survive that, but you lived, you flew, really flew.

I wonder if it was a concept that was deliberately meant to have multiple meanings over the course of the story: the pilot ends with "keep flying/surviving", but the movie ends with "flying/living/loving".

And that's a whole jumbled mess of trying to articulate something that I feel about the show and movie in general, and maybe it doesn't make sense, but I'll say that I agree with you in the sense that I wish the flying speech hadn't gone on as much as it had, in such a specific direction, because, yes, the metaphor doesn't match up quite so nicely.

I mean, I don't think that letting love in and allowing yourself to love will keep you alive, keep you in flight, as the speech implies, but I do think that it could make you more in tune with things that need fixing (relationships, engine parts). Where "Love's Divine" differs from "Prep for Flight" is that the latter embraces the idea that "falling [in love] in order to fly" could mean that you crash and burn, whereas "surviving" means you could live a long, healthy, and empty life. But Mal's willingness to die for his belief counters that to a degree.

/ramble makesnosense ramble makesnosense ramble makesnosense.

Maybe I'd be in bed by now if I'd just read your links!


ayceofspades - Feb 06, 2007 3:43:04 am PST #9491 of 10001

Calling Browncoats: Help get Firefly to number 1

Hi

Sorry if you guys already know but there's a major vote at:

[link] (Firefly in right hand column)

Firefly is in 3rd place and we need more voters to reach number 1. It's free to vote and you can vote every 60minutes.

We were gaining fast on 2nd (BONANZA - and still are) and 1st (XENA) but now XENA have mobilised all their troops and are voting like crazy. So we need more Browncoats to vote and get Firefly to No 1, where it belongs.

Here are the current standings as of 05/02/07:

XENA - 195865 BONANZA - 165550 FIREFLY - 142215

You can also download a timer from here:

Windows: [link] Linux: [link] OSX (and earlier): [link]

Which will open every 60 minutes.

If you use AOL you can vote in AOL Browser and Internet Explorer Browser so getting 2 votes per 60 minutes!

You can keep updated from this thread: [link]

Even 1 vote from you a day will make a difference and the 1st show to reach 250k votes will be inducted into the HALL OF FAME.

Join the battle Browncoats! WE NEED YOU!


WindSparrow - Feb 06, 2007 5:08:11 am PST #9492 of 10001
Love is stronger than death and harder than sorrow. Those who practice it are fierce like the light of stars traveling eons to pierce the night.

Ayceofspades, what site is conducting this poll? What Hall of Fame is this that doesn't have room for both Bonanza and Firefly?


Dana - Feb 06, 2007 6:23:20 am PST #9493 of 10001
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."

The La Femme Nikita people I know are all over this poll too. I don't get it.


Ailleann - Feb 06, 2007 6:30:24 am PST #9494 of 10001
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda

A Google for "Rich Labonte" shows some porn-related links... could this be the guy who was talking about trying to bankroll a second Firefly movie?