Lydia: Its removal from Burma is a felony and when triggered it has the power to melt human eyeballs. Giles: In that case I've severely underpriced it.

'Potential'


Firefly 4: Also, we can kill you with our brains  

Discussion of the Mutant Enemy series, Firefly, the ensuing movie Serenity, and other projects in that universe. Like the other show threads, anything broadcast in the US is fine; spoilers are verboten and will be deleted if found.


Cashmere - Oct 19, 2005 2:41:26 pm PDT #6591 of 10001
Now tagless for your comfort.

(And by the way, I hear from a little tweety bird who couldn't possibly be me it's an appauling film).

Of this I have no doubt.

I don't think Serenity is the film to end all films. I enjoyed it. It was smart and funny and well written (IMO). I hate the thought of craptacular pictures with bigger budgets and dumber premises and more idiot plot lines getting bigger returns.

I know, I should know better. I mean Fox ordered a full run of Fastlane when it axed Firefly.

But it still galls.


SailAweigh - Oct 19, 2005 2:52:26 pm PDT #6592 of 10001
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb

The first night I went to see Serenity, they played the Doom trailer. The entire audience broke into laughter by the end of it, and it wasn't a nice laughter.

I went and checked the largest local theaters, here. Serenity is still playing through the weekend. Yay. However, the Ultrascreen at one of them has Doom on it! What a fricking waste. So, yeah, the piece of crap is going to do much bigger numbers, at least for opening weekend. Hopefully, it will die a fiery and ignominious death.


Betsy HP - Oct 19, 2005 3:05:31 pm PDT #6593 of 10001
If I only had a brain...

If Doom does better than Serenity at the box office, I swear, I'm withdrawing from the human race.

Doom has a much bigger built-in fanbase.

I remember, in the '80s, going to really awful fantasy movies knowing how bad they'd be going in -- because if I wanted to see a fantasy movie at all that year, I had to see Krull.

There are more people who feel that way about Doom than there are who feel that way about Serenity.


libkitty - Oct 19, 2005 3:37:03 pm PDT #6594 of 10001
Embrace the idea that we are the leaders we've been looking for. Grace Lee Boggs

Serenity is leaving my local theater. To be replaced with Doom. I can't complain too much about Serenity leaving, though. Sunday afternoon, I think that there were under ten people in the theater.

It's no contest that the trailer for Doom was the absolutely worst trailer at Serenity here. The consensus in my group, which clearly does not match the general viewing public, was that even though Karl Urban looked might cute, it wasn't enough to even come close to saving the movie. It looks like dreck to me, which means it will probably do wonderful box office.


sfmarty - Oct 19, 2005 3:38:10 pm PDT #6595 of 10001
Who? moi??

During several Baycons half of the attendance was playing Doom.


Eddie - Oct 19, 2005 5:19:16 pm PDT #6596 of 10001
Your tag here.

I went and checked the largest local theaters, here. Serenity is still playing through the weekend.

Woo! I just checked the local theater and they START playing Serenity this Friday. Yay! No more hour long drives to the theater that was playing it (which incidentally is still playing there, just on a much more limited schedule).


Nilly - Oct 19, 2005 6:17:54 pm PDT #6597 of 10001
Swouncing

So, um, there was this movie I went to last night - and when I say night I mean it, it started on 11:45pm - and I have some thoughts rambling around my brain that I wanted to share. I skipped nearly 1500 posts. I've threadsucked them and intend to actually try and catch up, but before reading anybody else's opinion, I wanted to write down my own. So I am going to blatantly ignore every single ongoing conversation, and apologize in advance for what will be - if ever - a very lame possible later meara.

Also, this is all so very jumbled up. I've hardly had any sleep (only got back around 3am, and got up before 7am), and the holes in that sieve I dare call brain are big and large. I tried not to write down the things I liked about the movie that I already liked about the show - the grow-up characters, with actual friction between them and still that trust and working-together, when needed, for example. It's hard to tell apart, in a way, what's the show and what's the movie and where the one starts and the other ends in my mind, but whenever something felt "I said it once", I just tried not to say it (or at least, how unnatural to me, to say it with fewer words).

Even what I did manage to write is all fragmented. I wish I had the time to make it pretty, to actually put some thought and structure in it. Some of it is just sentences drifting with no connection to anything else other than their floating at one point in my mind through the movie.I don't know when I'll get to sit and try to write later, if at all, but I decided I'd post it anyway - a mess of a post is better than none at all, right? So, um, anyway, sorry. But, hey, fun movie.

It's not fair to make me laugh while I'm in tears. And then again, and then again. It's not like I didn't expect that, but still. They kept the dinosaurs. That was so absolutely lovely. The first thing I could say, when the movie ended, was about those dinosaurs. The moment I fell in love with "Firefly" the show was those dinosaurs.

When the movie ended, in a room full of science-fiction-convention-geeks (and I say that as totally one of them, well, being there and all, so it's not a criticism!), the credits rolled all the way through (usually, in an Israeli theater, you're lucky if you get thirty seconds, even when there are all sorts of fun stuff hidden throughout). The lights were back on only when the last of the credits finished to roll. I was just sitting there in the dark, trying to hold to one more second in that world.

And people were all: "so do you think he planned that for the Reavers from the start?" and "How do you spell that in English?" and "Oh, the scale of the effects was much bigger" and "It was different from the tv show because - " and "didn't he change Simon's story from the pilot of the show?". And those are all good things to talk about. I'll probably talk about them myself - what I'll be able to, my vocabulary in movies-speak is so very limited (it's not the English, this time, I have nothing to blame). But at that moment, all I wanted to do was slide slowly from that world, that held me for two whole hours. You know, like looking back after you turned to leave? And I think that's the best sign, for me, that no matter what thoughts I may have afterwords, I got inside the movie and its world was real for me. I love it when that happens.

Oh, and the Chinese wasn't translated! When they showed "Firefly" here, the network made the translator translate the Chinese phrases, no matter that the English-speaking original audience couldn't understand them, and that's how they were meant to be. In "Serenity", though, there was no such translation. The Chinese was as non-understandable as it should be. I was so very happy about that (and I'm never happy about being not-able to understand something!).

(continued...)


Nilly - Oct 19, 2005 6:17:58 pm PDT #6598 of 10001
Swouncing

( continues...)

I don't think I know how to phrase thoughts regarding actual analysis of the movie. When watching, I was "inside" the experience. I never thought "this is like the show" or "this is different from what they explained on the show" or the like. Also, I don't know to use all those long stylistic words in order to talk about the differences between mediums or techniques or anything. Obviously, it's there, but it's not even that I don't know how to phrase it, I don't think I know how to form the thoughts for it, the actual questions, let alone the answers. So I'm not going to even try to get into that. Just the movie, without any comparisons (other than "this feels like that episode", which are emotional, totally a "me" thing).

Even though I was 'inside' the movie, I remember myself thinking "oh, such a pretty picture!", on more than one occasion. I only remember one of them, now, that didn't involve just "Serenity" moving in space. That image of the ruined planet (Haven, IIRC), and River looking through an empty frame, burning. Just looking through it, standing behind it, her look framed by the flame, with all the ruin around her and she's so alert and so lost.

I loved the shots from River onwards. I'm not sure I explain myself properly. The shots that seemed to move in a direction that seemed to be dictated by a certain movement of river. A hand that's sent somewhere, a strand of hair that move is a certain way, a look that's being glanced in a certain direction. It wasn't the "seeing things in her eyes" from "Objects in Space", but rather the drawing attention to the fact that she sees things differently. To me, at least. I'm still not sure I can explain myself, or even if I have any idea what I'm talking about.

Now, I don't understand a single thing about fighting scenes. My sign of when they're done well is if I can tell who is winning and who is losing without them telling me after the fight "OK, so I won". I was not only able to follow the fight scenes in the movie, both the personal one-on-one and the space-battle ones (though I have no idea who won there, the only thing I figured out was that "Serenity" escaped), but even to realize how beautifully River moves. There's that image of her, with both swords in her hands, drawn each to a different side, her back arched and she forms a sort of half-a-circle with her shoulders - it was just beautiful. Like a waterfall.

I was just so glad to be back, to walk those corridors again with my eyes, to visit with those imaginary friends. The beginning long shot: with the name of the movie being the name of the ship, and how it gets inside and moves inside it. All the way through the corridors, and up and down, and following Mal wherever he went, and just feeling that the ship is really there and people can walk inside it and breath inside it.

I loved the way the Operative walked through the hologram of Simon and River's escape. The beginning of "things aren't what they seem". Also, the way River sees things, the way it's like she's inside somebody else's head - that was looking like the Operative was trying to be inside her head, to figure out what was going inside her and Simon. And in a way, he did. He went through River's head, but noticed Simon's expression, was inside his emotions.

I loved the way River - with her dancer abilities - can choose the most unexpected places to hide, to hold herself, to be in. There was a shot of two characters talking - I can't remember which - and on the floor above, River was lying on the metal grid. We only saw her head, and all the people talking, and it looked completely as if she's part of - not the conversation, but of the minds of the people who take part in that conversation, if that makes any sense.

I loved how, just like in a dance, where each muscle should be stretched as far as it can, where each movement should be as precise as possible for the body to carry it properly, where the slightest change makes a difference in the feel of things, even if one (me) can't see it - that's how River not only moves, but also talks. It's like she's moving her face, her mouth, with the same precision of dancing that she moves her body. Like she sometimes manages to taste the words just the way she senses the earth and the floor with her bare feet

(continued...)


Nilly - Oct 19, 2005 6:18:02 pm PDT #6599 of 10001
Swouncing

( continues...)

Mal trying to use River in his robbery makes perfect sense with Mal's own personality - he uses what he can, he does what it takes in order to take care of his crew. Even if that risks them in the process. He - and they - take the risk. The "save what we can" approach, like in "Safe".

Mal throwing off that man who tried to climb the mule to run away from the Reavers - there's a discussion in the Talmud that goes somewhat similar to this ethical dilemma: two people in a desert. Person1 has enough water for just the one of them to get to the end of the desert and survive, Person2 has nothing. The person who doesn't drink the water will surely die. The person who drinks the water will surely survive. Splitting the water means they both don't have enough to survive, so they both die, just as if none of them drank at all. What should Person1 do? The answer is, it's completely OK to drink the water alone, even though it's obvious it will lead Person2 to death. It's OK to take care of your own life, even though depriving this from somebody else means their death.

And that's the kind of grown-up dilemma that has no going-around it, no clever easy-fix solution, no way of out-smarting and out-hero-ing your way of. "Out of Gas". They barely made it safely inside "Serenity" as it were, with only the four of them. They would never have made it with that fifth man. And there was no outsmarting that. So they didn't.

Throwing the loot - which was also throwing their life in the near future, just as vital as air (and probably is) and not falling into the hands of the Reavers - was just as much their death as the actual one. And that's why Mal didn't even consider it long enough before he chose to toss that man. Also, it echoed - though differently, possibly - Jayne's choice from "Jaynetown".

Those are characters that may do questionable things, in a world that not only can't find any easy other solutions for them, but practically the opposite, leaves them with no choice but to having to resort to questionable acts and tough choices. That's science-fiction at its best, for me - the people, the situations they're facing, their choices, the implications of those choices, and the thoughts they manage to make ramble in my head regarding them. I love it when a work of fiction, images and sounds, manages to do that to me.

Mal knows he can get all outrageous, crazy notions, going on the line, in terms of dangers and of ethics, because he has Zoe at his back, and she questions his every move when it seems to her to be worth questioning - leaving that man behind, leaving River and Simon, going all the way with them, deforming the ship. He can play with all possibilities, because she's such a rock, and has no problem challenging him.

In the chase after the mule, when Zoe thought that they're not going to get to "Serenity" on time, she was leaning on Wash. She's the strong warrior, the one who can actually kill them (who later does), but she leaned on his calming words, on him coming to rescue her. She trusted him saying that she could fly the mule to safety, and together, they did manage to save it. In all the action and chase and monsters, I loved that relationship most.

The movie starts with the lecture of the teacher, the attempt to put order and "the way things are" into other planets in other solar systems. It starts with telling the planets what to do, and we can't avoid it, because otherwise it will be impossible to live in them. And then the central ones are so very much inside this process, they think they can regulate anything,, even the outside planets.

The operative wanted a world without sin, and Book, the Shepherd, wanted people to believe in something, whichever it was. He didn't try to correct their ways - for example, the way he treated Inara in the pilot - but to help find peace in their hearts.

(continued...)


Nilly - Oct 19, 2005 6:18:06 pm PDT #6600 of 10001
Swouncing

( continues...)

I don't think I'm able to accept that Mal actually went through all this "make the world a better place", wanted to really change the world outside him own little one that he had built. I think he wanted so much to believe in something, when seeing that the one thing he had - the ship and the crew - is falling apart - that he wanted himself into believing in something that the 'old', pre-war, Mal would believe in.

Again, flaws - in a perfect world, there's nothing to learn, nowhere to grow, nothing to become better. In a world without sin, there's no forgiveness, compassion, giving-a-chance. In Judaism, the world was created for people, with their flaws and imperfections 'built in', and not because G-d couldn't create us perfect.

And that's Book's story, isn't it? Being able to go another way.

Book's story, as short as it was, with all those missing pieces, that's what the movie was all about, in a way. A man who chose a way to live his life. A man who found a meaning other than surviving. A man who seemed to not be afraid of admitting that a former life was wrong, that he made mistakes, that he needs to change. And took the steps towards that change.

It seemed that he found a destination at the end of his journey, that he started in the pilot. He wasn't on board "Serenity" anymore, he found a planet to live on, to work in. A physical rest-stop throughout a mental search that didn't end yet.

And even though he wasn't aboard "Serenity" anymore, he was still a member of its crew. Not just in his eyes, but also in Mal's. In a contrast to the way River and Simon were portrayed as apart from the other members of the crew, even when they were still aboard the ship, he was inside even when they were a far distance away.

I loved Jayne quoting Book. The thug, who puts himself first and is willing for everybody else to die as long as it may ensure his safety, is the one who remembers the words of the man of faith, the man who seemed to dedicate his life to that little community built on Haven, to the man who seems so much like his opposite. I loved the relationship between those two characters in the show, I totally understand how come it couldn't be shown in the movie, and I thought that this touch was just lovely as it was, without any further explanations or elaborations. Especially considering the content of that quote.

In a movie, two hours and that's that, pretty much every character can die. There's no "opening credits" immunization, like in most TV shows. So this movie was strange - which could play here? And in a funny tv-land sort of way, Book's death was like a relaxing pat on the hand "look, there, you know that I'm evil and kill characters, so here, I killed you a character, and now you can all relax and watch the rest of the thing", but also exactly the other way around, because, hey, nobody is safe! Not even Mal.

"Leaf on the wind" (I hope I'm quoting right) - and he was exactly that, and anything but. He moved between those two giant fleets, the one led by the person who threatened them for the whole movie, the other but the biggest threat ever presented in that universe, and those two fleets were fighting between themselves, shooting and bombing and responding, and the existence of both of them in that place on that time was caused by "Serenity", the ship was who moved things along. There was complete self-decision in that. "Serenity" maneuvered the situation for that fight to happen. Not at all like a leaf who is being ripped from the branch by a wind and carried by that wind and gravity to wherever the currents may take it, completely dependent on other forces. And yet, "Serenity" got stuck in that situation by others, there was no conscious choice in the sense that the consequences of their actions, of taking River and Simon in, were completely not known to them.

(continued...)