Nothing worse than a monster who thinks he's right with God.

Mal ,'Heart Of Gold'


Firefly 4: Also, we can kill you with our brains  

Discussion of the Mutant Enemy series, Firefly, the ensuing movie Serenity, and other projects in that universe. Like the other show threads, anything broadcast in the US is fine; spoilers are verboten and will be deleted if found.


Miracleman - Oct 07, 2005 7:40:21 am PDT #6036 of 10001
No, I don't think I will - me, quoting Captain Steve Rogers, to all of 2020

I would require him to be a lot less of a true believer than the Operative we've seen; have him leave his job because of finding faith rather than losing it.

Well, I was thinking about it and the Operative and Book are sort of similar...they both want a "world without sin". Book found the slow way, the soft (and I don't mean that as a bad thing) way...to spread the Word*. Whereas the Operative was all "I will cleanse the world(s) with mine mighty sword and my firm belief in my belief." After The Secret, perhaps the Operative would find a path similar to Book's and join a monastery (that would be way too pat for me) or, I dunno...become an activist or something. Or adopt the Malcolm Reynolds Viewpoint of "There ain't no such thing, suck it up and live as best you can."

*This statement is neither an endorsement nor disparagement of any Word with a capital "wuh" that you may think of. Not even naughty Words.


DavidS - Oct 07, 2005 7:52:16 am PDT #6037 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I just remembered two other subtle movie allusions in Serenity, one to The Searchers and one to The Big Sleep.

When the operative says he's a monster, and that his job is to make this better world that he believes in, but that he will have no place in it, he's basically articulating the last scene of The Searchers. In that scene, John Wayne's Ethan character walks away from the doorway after returning the girl to her family. He's too much like the Indians, too much like the West itself to be a part of the civilization he's making. What the Operative says, is exactly what film students write in their papers about The Searchers.

And that brief scene at the end where Mal is checking with Zoe and asking about the ship but really asking her how she's doing, and they both know what's being said but stick to the ship report? That's the same gambit used in The Big Sleep where Bogie and Bacall talk about sex by talking about horse racing.


§ ita § - Oct 07, 2005 7:56:20 am PDT #6038 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Is that discussion by misdirection so rare that it's that easily traceable to a single genesis?


DavidS - Oct 07, 2005 7:58:41 am PDT #6039 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Is that discussion by misdirection so rare that it's that easily traceable to a single genesis?

It's a common strategy, I would think, but that is probably the most famous instance of it.

I can't think of another one that works as well or goes on as long.

Though Nutty is of the opinion that it's cheesy.


§ ita § - Oct 07, 2005 8:00:54 am PDT #6040 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

The instance or the mechanism?


DavidS - Oct 07, 2005 8:01:57 am PDT #6041 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

The instance or the mechanism?

That particular Big Sleep example. Perhaps because it goes on so long. We'll have to ask her.


§ ita § - Oct 07, 2005 8:03:44 am PDT #6042 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

How long does it last?


DavidS - Oct 07, 2005 8:09:12 am PDT #6043 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

The exchange in question:

**********

Vivian: Speaking of horses, I like to play them myself. But I like to see them workout a little first, see if they're front runners or come from behind, find out what their whole card is, what makes them run.
Marlowe: Find out mine?
Vivian: I think so.
Marlowe: Go ahead.
Vivian: I'd say you don't like to be rated. You like to get out in front, open up a little lead, take a little breather in the backstretch, and then come home free.
Marlowe: You don't like to be rated yourself.
Vivian: I haven't met anyone yet that can do it. Any suggestions?
Marlowe: Well, I can't tell till I've seen you over a distance of ground. You've got a touch of class, but I don't know how, how far you can go.
Vivian: A lot depends on who's in the saddle.


DavidS - Oct 07, 2005 8:10:05 am PDT #6044 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

So, not very long it's just an extended conceit.

And here I can see that they do apply it directly to each other, rather than leave that aspect unspoken.


§ ita § - Oct 07, 2005 8:10:42 am PDT #6045 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Isn't that "just" innuendo?