Book: Yes, I'd forgotten you're moonlighting as a criminal mastermind now. Got your next heist planned? Simon: No. But I'm thinking about growing a big black mustache. I'm a traditionalist.

'War Stories'


Firefly 4: Also, we can kill you with our brains  

Discussion of the Mutant Enemy series, Firefly, the ensuing movie Serenity, and other projects in that universe. Like the other show threads, anything broadcast in the US is fine; spoilers are verboten and will be deleted if found.


P.M. Marc - Oct 01, 2005 9:12:16 am PDT #5466 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Bringing up something that came up in the comments in someone's LJ...

A lot of people (self included) feel that the Operative's storyline was intended to give us a glimpse into Book's back story. One person mused that she wasn't sure she liked the notion of Book as a sociopath like the Operative, but that perhaps that was the whole point: that anyone, even the worst person alive, could be redeemed in the proper circumstances.

I, being flip, said something along the lines of "Only if they invoke the soul clause."

And then had a complete d'oh moment, when I realized that by making Book a shepherd, they kind of had, just not in the literal sense like on Buffy and Angel.


P.M. Marc - Oct 01, 2005 9:13:37 am PDT #5467 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Huh. Okay, I can see that. It didn't do that for *me*, but I can see how it would for other people.

I had a vague notion that something bad would happen to Wash, even though I was VERY good at keeping myself unspoiled for once in my life.

So I breathed a sigh of relief, then had my motherfucking guts torn out.


Zenkitty - Oct 01, 2005 9:16:19 am PDT #5468 of 10001
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.

If Book was indeed an Operative, and I think he was, I wonder what happened to change him?


Jars - Oct 01, 2005 9:19:43 am PDT #5469 of 10001

If Book was indeed an Operative, and I think he was, I wonder what happened to change him?

My theory on Objects in Space is that what River's seeing are snippets of the moments that made the characters who they are, and what brought them to Serenity. So Book's "I don't give a hump if you're innocent or not. So where does that leave you?" could be part of a case that made him see the error of his ways? What that case might be, who knows? Goose smugglers, maybe.


MechaKrelboyne - Oct 01, 2005 9:23:47 am PDT #5470 of 10001
... and that's a Pantera's box you don't want to open. - Mister Furious

Saw the movie last night. Theater was maybe 3/4 full, and very geeky. Lot's of brown coats, and not a few Jayne hats. The crowd was very affable, as most of the big groups knew at least one person in another big group. The consensus was very positive, with appropriate reactions throughout.

As to the movie itself, well here's the thing. Every time I like something as much as this, I worry that I've lost all ability to think critically. The writing and acting was pretty much everyting I expected, and the production was better than I thought it'd be when I found out about the budget. But of course, the big thing, and the big bone of contention is the characters. I for one was fine with most of the changes.

I saw most of the variances in characterization to be due to the hard times that followed for the crew in the interim between Objects In Space and Serenity. Simon's derring-do at the start being a notable exception.

Mal: Darker, meaner, more closed off. Proabably a lot like he was originally envisioned before Fox demanded he be lightened up.

Simon: I think most of Simon's actions in the 'present' of the movie were very consistent. A natural progression of where he was going anyway. He became more assertive and more willing to throw hands over the course of the series, he just seems a bit better at it now. Chances are he had ample opportunity to practice over the however many months between series end and Serenity.

I'll grant that the revised jailbreak doesn't jibe with the Simon we know, and I found it a bit jarring. Everything after that though, the decking Mal and so on was fine by me.

Kaylee: Hell, Mal even said they were short on food. All in all, I found this incarnation to be acceptable. She's not as cheerful, true. But again, I think she has good reason not to be.

Regarding the trigger happiness at the end, I think that the situation was decidedly more desperate than War Stories, where there was the possibility of the others returning in time to help. Also, I think that the whole 'Reavers ain't people' debate could play a role. If she was inclined to Book's view before, seeing the ultimate fate of Miranda's last victim could well have swayed her. Finally, and most sappily, there's the whole 'Never underestimate love as a motivator' angle. All in all, I didn't see it as too far a stretch.

Jayne: With a couple of exceptions, I think I like Movie Jayne even better than TV Jayne. Still funny, still tough, but not getting paid brings his inner cassius out to play. I actually liked how he wasn't backing down from Mal anymore. The scene where he started poking Mal's old war wounds was very tense. I thought there'd be punches.

My only quibble regarding the Hero of Canton are these: First, that spot in the heist where he clothslines the guy 180 degrees and catches his feet was crap. Pure and simple. Well, that and that his reaction to Simon's explanation of River's sleep command seemed a bit toostupid.

Crap. I was gonna ramble on through the whole cast, but I have to go earn money to see the movie again. I will say, however, that The Operative royally pissed me off through his persistent and stubborn not being Early.


askye - Oct 01, 2005 9:28:50 am PDT #5471 of 10001
Thrive to spite them

It never crossed my mind that Book might have been an Operative, I was thinking he was some kind of handler for them.


Atropa - Oct 01, 2005 9:38:13 am PDT #5472 of 10001
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

It's like -- Wesley's death made sense, but it upset me. *That* was effective enough -- why make it a bitchslap? I just don't get that. It doesn't make the death any more effective.

I think this is why Wash's death bothers me so much. Because while it was necessary to the plot, it *feels to me* like there was a bitchslap, a malicious edge to it. There's a very calculated "how can I make this even more of a a hurtful shock" tone to it in my head.

It knocked me out of my sense of complacency and surface comfort in my ability to protect myself by second-guessing the plot. The bitchslap put more life into my fiction, and for me, not in a bad way.

I totally get that. And yes, it did the same to me, except for me it was in a bad way.


Glamcookie - Oct 01, 2005 9:45:27 am PDT #5473 of 10001
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

If they crashed and Wash got killed in the impact, or if he got killed in the big fight afterwards, it would have made sense. Those are situations in which people are in mortal danger. But not after landing and breathing a sigh of relief. Doing it that way is kind of an unfair emotional bitchslap.

But after they landed, the Reavers were still coming after them. Wasn't the thing that killed Wash something that was fired at Serenity by the Reavers? That's what I thought and it made perfect sense. Somebody had to die in that fight. Wash biting it the way that he did was awesome because in most movies, you'd expect the death to be during a great battle scene. This was unexpected but totally believable in the storyline. This is what Joss is fucking fantastic at - doing the unexpected but having it be a believable part of the story he's telling.


Jars - Oct 01, 2005 9:50:13 am PDT #5474 of 10001

I liked Wash's death because it wasn't noble and heroic. There was no sacrifice. It was just a shitty thing that happened, the same way shitty things happen every day. It made it a lot more real to me than Book's hanging-on-to-life-to-give-inspiring-speech type death.


Narrator - Oct 01, 2005 9:56:58 am PDT #5475 of 10001
The evil is this way?

I liked -- but didn't love -- the movie. Maybe love will come on seeing it again. As for Book's and Wash's deaths -- if I didn't love the TV series I wouldn't have cared much if at all. They were too minor in the movie for me to have had any connection to them without the prior connection in the series. Book in particular. I thought that either Simon or River or even Kaylee would die, because there had been some time spent with their characters in the movie. As it was, it felt like Wash's death was just the loss of a pilot. Gina Torres did a great job of conveying Zoe's reaction to Wash's death. I know her character cared. (So did Kaylee.) But the movie didn't tell me why the audience should.