Dawn ,'Beneath You'
Discussion of the Mutant Enemy series, Firefly, the ensuing movie Serenity, and other projects in that universe. Like the other show threads, anything broadcast in the US is fine; spoilers are verboten and will be deleted if found.
And I can't see Kaylee as hot, because I always suspect people who are that relentlessly, annoyingly cheerful to be slightly mentally deficient.
Bah! She, um... the exception that proves the rule. Or something.
Which is weird, because 99.99% of the time I'd agree with you....
Usually I find relentlessly cheerful people annoying and suspect them of being dummies. But I gotta speak up in Kaylee's defense. Though maybe she remains a little naive, she isn't dumb, and she's not always cheerful. She wasn't cheerful when Mal insulted her about the dress, or when Simon insulted her or Jayne did. She wasn't cheerful when Serenity broke and they all thought they were gonna die, or when she got shot (she was cheerful in the recovery room, but by then, she knew she was going to be okay). When there's reason to be unhappy, her emotions are appropriate, and she shows them as easily as she does her cheerfulness. But Kaylee's a naturally cheerful person; when the immediate dangers and problems are over, she's back to her default state of being happy. People like me, who are naturally melancholy (can't speak for anyone else), will not be particularly cheerful unless there's a really good reason for joy (and maybe not even then). Melancholy is my default or ground state, as it is for most of my friends, and since we're melancholy and smart, I guess we tend to associate the two. (As one of my friends once exclaimed, "How can any sane person look at the real world and be happy!" I'm not quite that sad.) Kaylee's had a lot of scary experiences since joining Serenity, but while those may have matured her and her expectation of other humans, she still sees the universe as basically a good place, and her ground state will probably always be happiness. Her brain is just wired that way. Lucky her.
At the Ren Faire yesterday, Andi and I saw someone wearing a "Joss Whedon is my master now" t-Shirt.
True. I shouted, "Browncoat!" in reaction, but not even Daniel heard me.
I do find Kaylee pretty hot, but I can understand the cheerfulness making it impossible to see her as hot. Actually, I'm not even sure I'd say "hot". It seems like the wrong word somehow (for me, you understand), even though I adore her and she's my favorite character.
I do find Kaylee pretty hot, but I can understand the cheerfulness making it impossible to see her as hot. Actually, I'm not even sure I'd say "hot". It seems like the wrong word somehow (for me, you understand), even though I adore her and she's my favorite character.
Kaylee is who I want to be when I suddenly become younger, slenderer and a mechanical genius grow up.
Kaylee is my least favourite character. I could take her or leave her. Probably leave her, if I had to spend too much time with her. I think the times I liked her most were when she was pissed off.
When there's reason to be unhappy, her emotions are appropriate, and she shows them as easily as she does her cheerfulness....Kaylee's had a lot of scary experiences since joining Serenity, but while those may have matured her and her expectation of other humans, she still sees the universe as basically a good place, and her ground state will probably always be happiness. Her brain is just wired that way. Lucky her.
I guess she just doesn't seem complex to me. Not at all. I don't get the sense that there's anything under the surface. Or perhaps that just means she isn't closed-off and duplicitous. I dunno. To me it comes off as simplistic, though.
Of course, I also see the hero of Canton that way, too.
Mal = complex. Book = complex. I actually think that Inara is complex, too, though not nearly as much as Mal and Book.
So what you're saying is, Kaylee has no Secret Pain?
I'll agree that her viewpoint tends to be uncomplicated, but that doesn't mean that she is written simply or that she's a simple person. I think she is untested, and unself-aware. Looking at her in Out of Gas, and a couple other places, I saw signs of her going into total emotional collapse when a situation got really bad. That's something that might be interesting to explore, especially in tension with all the people aboard who are good at bad situations, and who need her expertise. The conflict with how to approach River, knowing she can kill, that had potential too.
Jayne has no Secret Pain either, but the detail that helped frame him, for me, was his automatic submissiveness when Mal got all het up. One suspects he himself doesn't notice his own behavior, but it's an interesting marker of how the world works for him.
Or perhaps that just means she isn't closed-off and duplicitous. I dunno. To me it comes off as simplistic, though.I prefer to think of her as simple, which is a huge distinction. Character complexity isn't a requirement for a good character for me.