Also, I can kill you with my brain.

River ,'Trash'


Firefly 4: Also, we can kill you with our brains  

Discussion of the Mutant Enemy series, Firefly, the ensuing movie Serenity, and other projects in that universe. Like the other show threads, anything broadcast in the US is fine; spoilers are verboten and will be deleted if found.


Kiba Rika - Aug 26, 2005 11:26:53 am PDT #4512 of 10001
I may have to seize the cat.

I just assumed that the Tams focused on Simon - they didn't intentionally sell River out - she chose the program, after all. But I can see how they might overlook a cry for help if it were incredibly indirect and it jeopardized Simon's social/professional status. And then after he tried to get her out when their dad had to come get him, how they would fear for his status again and also how they might think he was just making stuff up. Some people put a lot of stock in their gov't and trust it to do right by them. (I'm not one of those people.)


Kathy A - Aug 26, 2005 11:35:16 am PDT #4513 of 10001
We're very stretchy. - Connie Neil

The scene in which he speaks to the young ones shows him to be comfortably fatherly. He has one line to River, and it's not an unkind one. She's just not the subject of discussion at the time is all.

I had a totally different take on this, more along the lines of what Beverly, et al, had. The father struck me as very dismissive of River in that scene, and the fact that he didn't address her until she asked him a direct question gave me a bit of a chill.

I've fanwanked an entire backstory for the family dynamics just as a result of that scene and what the parents say (and don't say) in the later flashbacks from "Safe," in which Simon was the adored only child and River was a surprise (maybe a deliberate one on the mother's part, but definitely not wanted by Daddy). Her brainpower overshadowing Simon's grated even more on Daddy, who constantly pushed her away in favor of the son (maybe I've read too much Tolkien, because I'm putting this in similar terms to the Denethor/Boromir/Faramir relationship). Mom decided to let her husband's preferences supercede her own, but supported River's decision to go to the new school. Daddy decides to agree when he's paid a visit by some Alliance muckety-mucks, since he could really care less about his daughter's fate, and if it improves his family's status, all the better.

Actually, I set all this up in my head for a fanfic that was never written, but I like it, especially since I haven't seen anything that contradicts it canonically.


Dana - Aug 26, 2005 2:00:42 pm PDT #4514 of 10001
I'm terrifically busy with my ennui.

Oh, the scene with the Baby!Tams is on Sci-Fi right now.


Dana - Aug 26, 2005 2:09:18 pm PDT #4515 of 10001
I'm terrifically busy with my ennui.

Black market beagles! I haven't seen this episode in ages.


Jars - Aug 26, 2005 2:12:21 pm PDT #4516 of 10001

Ooh, with the incestberries! Delicious.


Eddie - Aug 26, 2005 2:21:42 pm PDT #4517 of 10001
Your tag here.

When the gunfight is just starting and Zoe shoots the gun out of the bad guy's hand, was the bad guy aiming at Mal/Jayne? That's how it seemed on this viewing (for the first time).


JenP - Aug 26, 2005 3:08:03 pm PDT #4518 of 10001

I don't know that they would knowingly sell their daughter to be tortured, but they might develop a blind spot if it was a real status thing.

Raq's take is my take as well. Still, not particularly a sympathetic view of Mama and Papa Tam.


Zenkitty - Aug 27, 2005 4:37:19 am PDT #4519 of 10001
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.

Mr. Broom, in Safe when River says, "Daddy will come to take us home," I believe she's referring to Mal. Not that she really thinks of Mal as her daddy or mistakes him for her father, it's just that things get confused in her mind, i.e., male authority figure/protector = Daddy, Mal = authority/protector, thus Mal = Daddy. She never mentioned "Daddy" coming to save them any other time, which if she were fantasizing about her actual father saving them, I think she would've. In Train Job, when Simon tells her they can't go home, she just looks sad, and then nods and accepts it. She doesn't even ask where their parents are.

I think it's very significant of the Tam family relationships that in this episode, Simon and River's relationship with their father is so strongly contrasted with their relationship with Mal. Their father was angry about leaving a dinner party to bail his son out of jail, and completely dismissive of the possibility that his daughter might be in danger, despite the evidence Simon presented, and made good on his repeated promise/threat that he would not come rescue Simon again. Whereas Mal took a huge risk for them as total strangers taking them on board, and then went back to get them when he could have been rid of them and their problems with no trouble. From the look on Simon's face after Mal said, "You're on my crew," I don't think the distinction was lost on him. Simon is not used to having a real family, except for River. I don't think Simon is accustomed to being valued for anything except what he can do. Mal might not like him, but it's clear that Simon is now "family", crew. And Mal isn't keeping Simon just because of the doctoring he can do. Serenity made it fine without Simon, and River is a liability so great that Simon's doctoring skill is not worth the risk of her. Mal knows this, as is apparent in the scene where both Jayne and Zoe tell him life would be simpler without them. Mal went back for Simon (and River, package deal) because he's family/crew, not because he's a good doctor.

I'm running on, sorry, but I really think that the fact that these scenes of Simon's former family life were placed in this episode (hell, this episode is about family and what it is to be safe, to be home) mean that the audience is supposed to draw the conclusion that I've drawn: Simon, as a person, means more to Mal than he did to his father. That's the why of River referring to Mal as Daddy, and the meaning of Simon's whole discussion with the settler woman about this not being their home, and her asking him where was home, then. That question is answered, by Mal, at the end of the episode.


sfmarty - Aug 27, 2005 5:25:55 am PDT #4520 of 10001
Who? moi??

I agree with Zenkitty. I never thought for one minute that River was referring to her biological father. It seemed obvious she was referring to Mal.


Volans - Aug 27, 2005 5:34:47 am PDT #4521 of 10001
move out and draw fire

Thirding, and it's kind of lovely also that River instinctively reciprocates Mal's irrational adoption of her and Simon. River knows shit.