"Yet, when told of the exact text of the First Amendment, more than one in three high school students said it goes "too far" in the rights it guarantees."

The truly frightening part is that they're making this value judgement based on faulty assumptions that the First Amendment is less permissive than it actually is. Imagine what the responses would have been had they known that you can find porn on the internet.

Wow. Someone's not happy that Toto's home. Bastet just scratched him. And he's bleeding. Poor guy. She's never done that before. I mean, she's batted at him, but never actually scratched him.

When I was in high school, I generally was very trusting and innocent. I suspect that if asked at the time, I would have felt that the First Amendment, while important, wasn't truly necessary these days because "everyone know freedom of speech is important."

I know that's not exactly what the article is saying, but I think that it sometimes takes a while for critical thinking to be clearly developed.

I think that it sometimes takes a while for critical thinking to be clearly developed.

Yes, this. They are so young.

I'm sorry if I just snapped at everyone. I'm really tired after school today, and I'm defensive.

Also exhausted. I think I'm going to take a nap.

Kristin, that's what I meant - I was taught this stuff, as a matter of course, and as it happens, so was Jo. We asked her questions all the time, and this stuff was still basic.

But what I don't remember, from my school days or Joanna's, is this emphasis on "standardised test! All that matters! Must pass that! Top priority! Force the teachers to make that the numero uno priority!" That seems to be me to be recent. Isn't it?

In that case, they're making a value judgement on the text.

Yep - but very few working parents, in my own acquaintance, sit down and discuss the Bill of Rights with their adolescent children. Real world constraints in a two-income family says, no. So if the kids are making statements like the one quoted above, and they aren't getting it from their parents and they aren't getting it from their teachers, where are they getting it from?

My money's on it being the same place kids that age get most of their stuff: their peers. Blind leading the blind.

I'm sorry Kristin. I didn't mean to offend. While I think there are some bad teachers. I hardly think they're the problem (In this instance. What they can do to an individual student is a whole nother ball of wax). When school boards decide that intelligent design ought to be taught alongside evolution, and textbooks ignore or only briefly touch on the recent past--I do see a trend away from (or perhaps it was never there) questioning and defending ideas.

I went to great public schools. I had great teachers. I believe in public schools and, even in a city with notoriously bad eggs in their public school basket, would take the necessary steps to send my kids to one of the good ones. This is for lots of reasons, the primary one being that good public education is one of the foundations of a healthy democracy.

I was speaking from foil-hat land when I said, "Almost makes you think those shitty public schools aren't happening by accident" because those crypto-fascist neo-cons scare the fuck out of me. And there is nothing I would put past them.

As I said, I'm sorry if I overreacted. I'm not offended or mad at anyone. I'm just exhausted.

Imagine what the responses would have been had they known that you can find porn on the internet.

They know. My nine (then eight) year old, who thought Gwen Stefani was "nudie" appearing on TV in a belly shirt and mini-skirt was told by a friend (who is a notorious liar) that there were naked people online at weare18.com.

Of course the notorious liar wasn't lying that time. *sigh*

I don't think you overreacted at all. It's one thing to argue about education; it's quite another to be on the front lines with these kids and the bureaucracy. I don't have kids, and probably won't. Though the problems facing the educational system affect me, I'm not really involved with it. I don't think it's a bad thing to get perspective from someone who is.

Which is to say (((((Kristin)))))).