However, I think if TPTB want Jin to have learnt no English, he learnt no English. It's their call.

I worry that ita has fallen under the thrall of TPTB. Or the Pretty. Who will be our Champion?

This is how people get through an episode of Alias without laughing derisively at the plot, right?

At the end, did anyone else get a vibe of Sun walking into the ocean and not coming back out?

It felt like a freedom vibe to me. Then again that doesn't preclude her not coming back out, just a different kind of freedom.

I am without knowledge of how likely or unlikely an educated Korean of Jin and Sun's age would know English. I'll buy what the writers present. The isolation of Jin tore me up. The lack of communication between the couples reminded me of a daytime soap, but with better acting and scenery.

My childhood was spent with Italian and Polish speaking grandparents in many friends homes. I picked up many phrases, long since forgotten, and never had any doubt what they were saying when yelling at us. In recent years I am surrounded by Spanish speaking people and have absorbed a few things. Language is fairly easy for me though.

There is a point though. The article you quoted that learning English has been focused on in recent years. How recent is recent? I find it perfectly feasible for a 30-something from a fishing villiage to have not been part of that program, unless someone can track down some dates on when mandatory English lessons became part of the school curiculum and how widespread it was in relation to when Jin would have been in school.

I find it perfectly feasible for a 30-something from a fishing villiage to have not been part of that program, unless someone can track down some dates on when mandatory English lessons became part of the school curiculum and how widespread it was in relation to when Jin would have been in school.

That's pretty much my point. I don't feel it's even a wank. It's just a thing.

The roomie needs training. When I got home, she nonchalantly said "TV Guide said [Big ass spoiler here]." It's enough to knock me off my wagon and get my butt over to Spoilers.

Also, TV Guide shouldn't list things that spoilery.

I don't feel it's even a wank. It's just a thing.

This needs to be on a t-shirt. That I will then wear, and point to when such things come up.

"TV Guide said [Big ass spoiler here]."

*Seeking Spoiler, runs full speed into "here." Knocks self unconscious. *

This conversation is cracking me up. I just came back from a work-day from hell (like, hello? It's 10 friggin' PM. Stupid job) and clicked on B.org for the first time. If only I'd known you guys were arguing about the extent of English instruction in Korea! I'd have dropped everything!

Anyway, my first-hand experience as a high-schooler in Korea in the 80's (which I expect would also apply to Jin and Sun as I think they are about my age, i.e. early-to-mid 30's) is that 1) yes, English was taught as the main second language all across the country, including small fishing villages in southern provinces, 2) the instruction continued through the secondary school, i.e. approximately 6 years, and 3) the emphasis was mostly on the comprehension of the written language, grammar and spelling with essentially no practical instruction on conversational english. When my family came to Canada (I was 17), it was like I had NO English instruction whatsoever--and this was despite the fact that I was a fairly good student. I could understand some written words, and could say, "I don't speak English," "Where is the bathroom?", and "How do you do?" and really, that was about it. It took nearly a year of continuous exposure to American TV (I watched a scary amount of Family Ties reruns) and reading a trunkful of trashy romances & Agatha Christies before I had a decent grasp at the language.

My understanding is that in the past decade, there has been a movement of sorts among the business community (and children of the affluent) to learn practical, conversational English, mostly in an out-of-the-classroom setting, in after-work/school classes with a native-English-speaking teachers or in private lessons. This wasn't as prevalent when I was growing up there, so it doesn't surprise me at all that Jin (as well as pre-lessons Sun) has little conversational English skills. However, if he really wanted to communicate, he would have found a way--as I mentioned, the students are taught vocabulary and grammar, so he could have pointed and said "fish", or "flower", and "water" (albeit poorly pronunciated). But I think this is fanwankable by the assumption that Jin did *not* want to communicate, ergo made no attempt to do so; he was distrustful of other castaways and wanted for him and Sun to keep to themselves.

I do have issues with how fluent Sun's English is. There's no way someone can speak it that well with only a few months of lessons on the sly. Plus, she often speaks with a fairly sophisticated phrasing, e.g. "Protecting that watch was a matter of honour", like, yeeeeeah, right. "Watch! Important!" is probaby all I could have managed in the same situation.

When my family came to Canada (I was 17),

Whoa - fascinating Vonnie biogaphical details. How come we're so simpatico on classic movie viewing?

It took nearly a year of continuous exposure to American TV (I watched a scary amount of Family Ties reruns) and reading a trunkful of trashy romances & Agatha Christies before I had a decent grasp at the language.

Heh. TV to the rescue! My friend Josh said he learned most of his German by watching Bugs Bunny cartoons dubbed while he was in that country.

I, too thought maybe Sun was going to walk into the ocean and drown or suicide by drowning. Hurley's montagious interruptus made me think the next shot would be her body washing up, or her going down.

I'm glad it wasn't, tho.