Lila Mae too I found unlikable.

This was me, too. She just seemed so dry and removed. I was wondering if this was a function of her being the outsider (female, black, etc.) and if maybe that's why I didn't get her - because I wasn't supposed to. I liked Dagny Taggert (Atlas Shrugged) because I admired her - I guess I just didn't care about Lila Mae very much or what was happening to her because I couldn't find a way in to understand her.

Tommy, I like what you said about the elevators. It's hard for me to see an elevator as something one could intuit about, but your simplification helped clarify the Intitution/Empricism difference.

To me, Intuitionist vs Empiricist was a way to explore our relationships with our creations. The Empiricist sees the elevator, which is the way to ascend, the thing that brings a new kind of city, as purely nuts and bolts. The Intuitionist sees the elevator in terms of its relationship to people and to its essential function. Does an elevator exist, in terms of its essence, if it is not raising people up or bringing them down? Will the elevator fail if it is not fulfilling its purpose? It's the same question raised by Jubal Early in Objects in Space--Is it River's room when River isn't in it?

I liked Lila Mae, because I thought she had had to develop her emotionless, pragmatic approach to life in order to survive in a white male world. It was interesting to me that her personality seemed at odds with the nonrationality of Intuitionism. I think the author deliberately wanted to avoid making her seem like a touchy-feely psychic type. At the same time, I thought it was an interesting choice to associate blacks with the nonrational, nonscientific approach.

I wish I had taken a highlighter to the book too.

I actually, was disappointed with the ending and the last quarter or so of the book. I have too many questions I feel like I either didn't understand the answers to, or that I wasn't given answers to. What was the deal with Natchez working for Arbo? Why did he lie about Fulton being his uncle- presumably he could have just said he knew about Fulton's race.

I think I tried so many times to map opposing ideas, theories, ideologies, whathaveyou, onto the two inspection techniqes that when none of it seemed to matter, I felt let down.

I did find the relationship, or lack of between Lila Mae and Pompey to be interesting- no more than that- familiar. It reminds me of the way women treat each other sometimes. Equality through identifying with the oppressor (though that's a little harsh as far as my experience goes).

Seen from Lila Mae's point of view, Pompey was the traitor. Going along to get along, trashing her after the accident. Seen objectively- Lila Mae was no better. When she thought it was sabotage- she suspected him. Not only did the possibility of it just being a random accident occur to her, it didn't occur to her that it would have been done by anyone but Pompey and his masters.

Heather, I agree with your point about Pompey. I sort of think that the novel's most emotional moment was when Pompey rounded on her in a rage about the compromises he's made to get where he is. I could see that as an important turning point, where Lila Mae begins to see him as a person, and where she begins to shuffle off some of the more subtle stereotypes she lives with, to see through to the right answer about the Fanny Brooks building.

I did empathize, in an awkward way, with Lila Mae's emotional conservatism, her parsimonious little life. But then I got to the end and that parsimony seemed like -- like the author was saying, "Yes, withdraw, because you're safe if you have no friends", and that was kind of depressing and wrong-y. Even Natchez turned out to be false, and although his Arbo Businessman face wasn't actively hostile, he also wasn't emotionally available for Lila Mae. In the end, she was just as lonely as Fulton at his lying worst.

Do you think the book would have sold as well if it was called Elevators and the Lying Liars Who Build Them?

I was bugged that a black man would rise up in the ranks of an elevator company with NOBODY in that status conscious little world knowing about him.

I think I'm bugged that if someone asked me what the book was about- beyond saying its about a black woman who's an elevator inspector in a world where that's an important job, and people are still backwards enough that her race and gender are a factor.

Again unanswered questions. What is the significance of the guy she worked with and his escalators?

And one more familiar thing- the reception, or whatever with the blackface and the dancing girls. Lila Mae wasn't going to go, but it wasn't until reading what the party was like that I could fully understand why. Same thing happens in business today- have "meetings" at the strip club or at the country club.

I was bugged that a black man would rise up in the ranks of an elevator company with NOBODY in that status conscious little world knowing about him.

Well, he was sort of an undercover kind of guy. I was most surprised that he had a real office and secretary and everything, though.

I sort of think that the novel's most emotional moment was when Pompey rounded on her in a rage about the compromises he's made to get where he is. I could see that as an important turning point, where Lila Mae begins to see him as a person, and where she begins to shuffle off some of the more subtle stereotypes she lives with, to see through to the right answer about the Fanny Brooks building.

Yes! This, and the very end of the book, were just about the only parts that I really liked. Pompey started as a cipher, and ended up being the most three-dimensional character in the whole book!

Re: the reporter. Why was he even there, other than to give the answers to Lila Mae at the end? The torture, overdone. Plus, the author just worked too hard to make his bad guys (Jim and John, I think?) funny. I wish that he had just cut that out altogether.

Gotta say, though, that I've been holding out on Asher Lev because I didn't want to read it too early, but I'm really looking forward to that one. And, even though I didn't like it, I'm glad that I read The Intuitionist. It's not like books that I usually read, and I feel like my horizons have somehow expanded. Thanks Wolfram!

The whole business with the reporter bothered me the most. You have all that creepy business where he's the screaming man and the image of the fingers tacked up on a bulletin board, and then Lila Mae finds him all calm and rational, with just a broken hand, there to explain everything. Plus I never quite understood the relationship between the elevator company and the mob guys. Did the elevator company hire the mob to find the secret of the perfect elevator? Why did they let the reporter go?

Why did they let the reporter go?

This. Why is he still alive?!