Don't kill anyone if you don't have to. We're here to make a deal.

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The Buffista Book Club: the Harry Potter iteration  

This thread is a focused discussion group. Please see the first post below for the current topic and upcoming book discussions. While natter will inevitably happen, we encourage you to treat this like a virtual book club and try to keep your posts in that spirit.

By consensus, this thread is reopened specifically to discuss Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. It will be closed again once that discussion has run its course.

***SPOILER ALERT***

  • **Spoilers for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows lie here. Read at your own risk***


Trudy Booth - Oct 23, 2007 7:00:27 am PDT #3173 of 3301
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

See, I find this defense problematic

I don't think its a defense so much as an analysis (not everybody sees Rowlings choice as needing to be defended). Did you read the article? It has an air of "how did I MISS that? Its so obvious"

For another thing, the society that JKR created in the HP books? Also heteronormative.

I don't think we can say that. Maybe to wizards Dubledore is gay and its not worth mentioning -- again, the examples given in the article sort of point to that.


Dana - Oct 23, 2007 7:01:30 am PDT #3174 of 3301
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."

I'm a slasher, and the Dumbledore and Grindelwald thing didn't even ping me.

Heh. Pretty much everyone I know said, "They're the new Xavier and Magneto!" Which led right into slash territory.


Trudy Booth - Oct 23, 2007 7:07:20 am PDT #3175 of 3301
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

Does anyone in the older generations ever even kiss? They get married and they have babies but (much like real life) to the teenagers they're sort of eunichs.


Kate P. - Oct 23, 2007 7:13:18 am PDT #3176 of 3301
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

I don't think its a defense so much as an analysis

Sorry, maybe that was a poor word choice on my part. I read it as a defense in the context of this conversation.

Yes, I read the article. It was interesting, but this is where the author and I fundamentally disagree:

Throughout the series, she has been diligent not only in her narrative exploration of bigotry and intolerance, but also in her commitment to the inclusion of characters of different races, cultures, classes and degrees of physical beauty. It would, in fact, have been a glaring omission had none of the inhabitants of her world been homosexual.

Because I *do* see it as an omission. I mean, if we had to be told after the fact that Dumbledore was gay -- which clearly came as a surprise to many, many people -- then I don't consider that it really was in the books. She could tell us all kinds of things about the characters or the story that she considers to be true, and no doubt we could find support for them in the text, but until she actually goes ahead and says it *in the books*, then IMO it doesn't really count for much.


Glamcookie - Oct 23, 2007 7:18:46 am PDT #3177 of 3301
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I gotta say I feel a little piled on. It seems like often times when the gay thing comes up in fiction, TV (hello Willow/Tara), and the like that gays take issue with it, there is a big backlash of "No, you're not being fair" or the like. Unless you are gay, you don't know how gays should/would react. Period. There's nothing wrong with having a differing opinion, but I am entitled to feel that that this is irritating. I know that you guys are all cool with the gays, but that's not the same thing as being gay. It doesn't give you a right to tell gays how they should feel, or that they're feelings are wrong.

I'm sincerely not trying to start something or do the whole "take my toys and flounce off," and I hope that this doesn't start some big kerfluffle, but this isn't the first time I've felt this way and I just feel like I had to share it. Consider if this were a racial issue, for example. If you weren't of the race that was offended, you'd probably have comments and opinions, but I don't think you'd come in and tell someone of that race that they are wrong or shouldn't feel the way they do.

And on one final note, the idea of acting like the world is the way you'd like it to be only works for those who have all of the rights and freedoms. Gays do not.

Now, I swear I'm done on the subject and I still love HP and b.org!


Vonnie K - Oct 23, 2007 7:19:35 am PDT #3178 of 3301
Kiss me, my girl, before I'm sick.

I'm a slasher, and the Dumbledore and Grindelwald thing didn't even ping me.

I'm not a slasher (to a degree that I don't really see Remus/Sirius, which everybody seems to glom on), yet Dumbledore/Grindelwald pinged me like whoa. But I've gotten so used to seeing the HP universe as an everything-goes polyamourous universe from all the fandom exposure (this, despite the fact it's not even one of my main fandoms) that the concept of Potterverse as a heteronormative world kind of makes me snort. But I'm probably coming at it from a weird angle, since I started reading HP fic *before* I read the books.


Trudy Booth - Oct 23, 2007 7:23:12 am PDT #3179 of 3301
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

GC, I know non-board gay people who feel all sorts of ways about it.

I don't think "gay people see 'X' and straight people see 'Y' is as unilateral as it seems to be on our board.

t snuggles the cookie for she does feel the angst


megan walker - Oct 23, 2007 7:26:12 am PDT #3180 of 3301
"What kind of magical sunshine and lollipop world do you live in? Because you need to be medicated."-SFist

If you weren't of the race that was offended, you'd probably have comments and opinions, but I don't think you'd come in and tell someone of that race that they are wrong or shouldn't feel the way they do.

Well, I just brought up the fact here that the really evil characters had French names and basically everyone tried to persuade me otherwise.


Glamcookie - Oct 23, 2007 7:27:11 am PDT #3181 of 3301
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

I'm not saying that all gays feel the way I do or that they have to. I'm taking issue with being told that my feelings are in some way wrong or incorrect, especially when I'm a member of the group that Rowling's reveal is about.


§ ita § - Oct 23, 2007 7:27:25 am PDT #3182 of 3301
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

if this were a racial issue, for example. If you weren't of the race that was offended, you'd probably have comments and opinions, but I don't think you'd come in and tell someone of that race that they are wrong or shouldn't feel the way they do.

Welcome to International Blog About Racism Week.

I'm being harsh, but I get what you're saying. Which is why I don't want to seem like I'm telling how to react--just about readings and relevance and responsibility. I disagree with you, but that's as far as it goes.