I'm a slasher, and the Dumbledore and Grindelwald thing didn't even ping me.

Heh. Pretty much everyone I know said, "They're the new Xavier and Magneto!" Which led right into slash territory.

Does anyone in the older generations ever even kiss? They get married and they have babies but (much like real life) to the teenagers they're sort of eunichs.

I don't think its a defense so much as an analysis

Sorry, maybe that was a poor word choice on my part. I read it as a defense in the context of this conversation.

Yes, I read the article. It was interesting, but this is where the author and I fundamentally disagree:

Throughout the series, she has been diligent not only in her narrative exploration of bigotry and intolerance, but also in her commitment to the inclusion of characters of different races, cultures, classes and degrees of physical beauty. It would, in fact, have been a glaring omission had none of the inhabitants of her world been homosexual.

Because I *do* see it as an omission. I mean, if we had to be told after the fact that Dumbledore was gay -- which clearly came as a surprise to many, many people -- then I don't consider that it really was in the books. She could tell us all kinds of things about the characters or the story that she considers to be true, and no doubt we could find support for them in the text, but until she actually goes ahead and says it *in the books*, then IMO it doesn't really count for much.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I gotta say I feel a little piled on. It seems like often times when the gay thing comes up in fiction, TV (hello Willow/Tara), and the like that gays take issue with it, there is a big backlash of "No, you're not being fair" or the like. Unless you are gay, you don't know how gays should/would react. Period. There's nothing wrong with having a differing opinion, but I am entitled to feel that that this is irritating. I know that you guys are all cool with the gays, but that's not the same thing as being gay. It doesn't give you a right to tell gays how they should feel, or that they're feelings are wrong.

I'm sincerely not trying to start something or do the whole "take my toys and flounce off," and I hope that this doesn't start some big kerfluffle, but this isn't the first time I've felt this way and I just feel like I had to share it. Consider if this were a racial issue, for example. If you weren't of the race that was offended, you'd probably have comments and opinions, but I don't think you'd come in and tell someone of that race that they are wrong or shouldn't feel the way they do.

And on one final note, the idea of acting like the world is the way you'd like it to be only works for those who have all of the rights and freedoms. Gays do not.

Now, I swear I'm done on the subject and I still love HP and b.org!

I'm a slasher, and the Dumbledore and Grindelwald thing didn't even ping me.

I'm not a slasher (to a degree that I don't really see Remus/Sirius, which everybody seems to glom on), yet Dumbledore/Grindelwald pinged me like whoa. But I've gotten so used to seeing the HP universe as an everything-goes polyamourous universe from all the fandom exposure (this, despite the fact it's not even one of my main fandoms) that the concept of Potterverse as a heteronormative world kind of makes me snort. But I'm probably coming at it from a weird angle, since I started reading HP fic *before* I read the books.

GC, I know non-board gay people who feel all sorts of ways about it.

I don't think "gay people see 'X' and straight people see 'Y' is as unilateral as it seems to be on our board.

t snuggles the cookie for she does feel the angst

If you weren't of the race that was offended, you'd probably have comments and opinions, but I don't think you'd come in and tell someone of that race that they are wrong or shouldn't feel the way they do.

Well, I just brought up the fact here that the really evil characters had French names and basically everyone tried to persuade me otherwise.

I'm not saying that all gays feel the way I do or that they have to. I'm taking issue with being told that my feelings are in some way wrong or incorrect, especially when I'm a member of the group that Rowling's reveal is about.

if this were a racial issue, for example. If you weren't of the race that was offended, you'd probably have comments and opinions, but I don't think you'd come in and tell someone of that race that they are wrong or shouldn't feel the way they do.

Welcome to International Blog About Racism Week.

I'm being harsh, but I get what you're saying. Which is why I don't want to seem like I'm telling how to react--just about readings and relevance and responsibility. I disagree with you, but that's as far as it goes.

For another thing, the society that JKR created in the HP books? Also heteronormative.

I don't think we can say that.

All the numerous romantic and sexual relationships, all the flirting and snogging, all the married couples (regardless of whether or not they kiss in the books) in the HP universe are straight. Homosexuality is mentioned *once* in all seven books, and it's used as an insult. I find it really difficult *not* to read that as heteronormative. There needs to be *some* inclusion of queer characters and/or relationships before I can see it as non-heteronormative. (What's a good word for that? Homo-happy? Anyway.)