Well, look at you. All dressed up in big sister's clothes.

Faith ,'End of Days'


The Buffista Book Club: the Harry Potter iteration  

This thread is a focused discussion group. Please see the first post below for the current topic and upcoming book discussions. While natter will inevitably happen, we encourage you to treat this like a virtual book club and try to keep your posts in that spirit.

By consensus, this thread is reopened specifically to discuss Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. It will be closed again once that discussion has run its course.

***SPOILER ALERT***

  • **Spoilers for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows lie here. Read at your own risk***


DavidS - Oct 19, 2007 7:18:52 pm PDT #3077 of 3301
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Because I had to. He's Batman.

Phew, I'm still in the top fifteen.


Fay - Oct 19, 2007 10:42:58 pm PDT #3078 of 3301
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Okay, everyone in the internet cafe is looking at me weird after I just did Victory Arms over the Dumbledore revelation.

....did anyone ask her about Remus/Sirius? 'Cause in light of the Dumbledore thing, I'm thinking Jo may just make that canon.


Ailleann - Oct 20, 2007 5:15:12 am PDT #3079 of 3301
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda

....did anyone ask her about Remus/Sirius? 'Cause in light of the Dumbledore thing, I'm thinking Jo may just make that canon.

Would. Throw. A. Party.


Sue - Oct 20, 2007 5:52:04 am PDT #3080 of 3301
hip deep in pie

There is a good summary of the Q&A in NY here:

[link]

When eight-year-old Mia asked an Aberforth question, Jo asked her age and said that just for her the answer would be "that the goats were easy to keep clean and that they had curly horns," as the audience roared with laughter.

Har!


Kate P. - Oct 20, 2007 11:30:45 am PDT #3081 of 3301
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

Man, I'm actually pissed at JKR over the Dumbledore reveal. How hard would it have been to put that in the freaking books?? This is the line that makes me maddest:

"If I had known this would have made you so happy, I would have told you years ago."

Way to have the strength of your convictions, lady. I'm so glad that you feel comfortable revealing this now that you've already sold billions of copies of your books. I mean, not that it wouldn't have been problematic in a different way, making the only gay character one who was basically asexual, but still -- think of the platform she had! Think of how many people read those books for whom this might have been the first positive portrayal of a gay character they'd ever seen. She's also quoted as saying that she views the books as "a prolonged argument for tolerance," but as written, they're very (if unintentionally) heteronormative. I can't believe that she knew all along that Dumbledore was gay, but never made a single reference to that fact in all seven books. Yeah, that's real useful, JKR. Way to fight the good fight.


Volans - Oct 20, 2007 12:08:28 pm PDT #3082 of 3301
move out and draw fire

See, and I totally thought that it was in Book 7. I mean, Dumbledore wasn't wearing Gay Pride robes, but I was like, "Huh, so he's gay. That totally fits."

Of course, now everyone's going to be saying he's the British public school headmaster pedophile archetype (if that's an architype...caricature?)

I think someone started a Werner Hezog one as well.

Oh BWAH!


§ ita § - Oct 20, 2007 1:06:51 pm PDT #3083 of 3301
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Way to fight the good fight.

If she'd signed up to fight the fight (or any fight, really) I could see the harsh judgment. But she's a YA author. That's the extent of her responsibility. There are a million things she knew that didn't make it down on the pages, and I think basic "being decent" is well covered by her not slagging any groups unduly, etc.

We're not all fighters, even those who have the lofty platforms. It would have been great if she did, but I can't be mad that she didn't.


Kate P. - Oct 20, 2007 1:43:17 pm PDT #3084 of 3301
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

Well, I disagree to a certain extent about her responsibility. Children's and YA authors in general tend to write with a somewhat didactic purpose, which often takes the form of introducing characters who have certain characteristics or are in certain situations. Of course that's not always the case, and plenty of children's & YA books don't purport to teach any kind of lesson at all; but didacticism is still common to both genres.

So when JKR says that she considers her books to be advancing an argument for tolerance, I have to figure that that's partly her purpose in writing them. Of course her purpose, first and foremost, is to tell a good story. But in telling that story, she created a world that addressed differences among people (and magical creatures), and took some care to populate that world with diverse characters from a variety of backgrounds. And yet, in all those hundreds of characters she created, not a single one of them, on the page, was anything other than Totally Het. So to find out that all along she considered a major character to be gay, yet she never acknowledged that fact in the books -- when it would even have made sense plotwise to do so! -- yeah, I take issue at that.


§ ita § - Oct 20, 2007 2:15:17 pm PDT #3085 of 3301
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I think her books were huge on tolerance. I just don't dock her points for not hitting every sort of tolerance out there. She didn't address weight either (and you might argue she was negative about it--way worse in my book than not addressing sexuality).

I guess I don't judge her for not running fast in a race I'm not sure she joined.


Scrappy - Oct 20, 2007 2:24:28 pm PDT #3086 of 3301
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

I'm with ita. Aside from the Weasleys, there weren't ANY sexual relationships until book 7 or so. And none of the teachers seem to have any private life, at least not one we know about. If Dumbledore had been the sole professor whose romantic life we don't see, it would bother me.