As for Jack, I don't think we were supposed to love the character despite his infidelities. He's a big child, lovable at times, and deeply, deeply flawed.

This is like the discussion over in the Lost thread -- I don't know if I'd like Jack if he were real, if I knew him IRL. However, as a character, I was surprised at how much I ended up liking him (and, as a corollary, Thomas Hayden Church, who I have NEVER liked in any role before). I think I ended up liking the character because, as the viewer, I got to see the whole character -- not only the philandering, but all of him. There were so many grace notes in his character in his interactions with Miles, whenever Miles was freaking out or just angsting, the way that Jack would extend some emotional support/comfort.

Granted, his character wasn't deep; but even that holds its charms. Basically, he was a wonderful foil to Miles.

And, honestly, because he was a *character* and not someone who I know IRL, even his philandering struck a note of pathos for me, and I actually felt sorry for him that he was so desperate to cling to someone else.

P-Cow, I don't think Jack was a good person, but he was a good friend. You can see how he had served a very necessary and important purpose to Miles over the years - forcing him out of his downward spirals, making him take chances, to engage with people, to live. I could completely understand while Miles would have enough loyalty towards him to go get the wedding ring back.

Also, as Tep notes, Thomas Hayden Church brought a lot of shading to the character. He didn't hide Jack's essential shittiness, and he was also aware (but in denial) that he was a person who had been gliding through life on charm without much ethos at all. And he knew his charm and looks were fading.

Okay, I can't link directly to the photo. Click on Photos on that page, and theb click on the third one down, on the left.

Wow, the picture in the bottom row, in the center? Could be George Clooney.

I just read that Cate's freckles were painted on to play Kate Hepburn. I think the thing that impressed me the most about Aviator was the makeup. It took Ali to point out that the period makeup was excellent too -- I was fixated on the injury makeup, and did remark to myself that it was cool we were seeing Cate's freckles.

Oh, naive me.

Lovely stuff, though.

The makeup really was excellent. And you're not naive. The point of the makeup is to fit in so seamlessly that you don't realize that's what you're seeing.

I liked The Aviator. I don't need to see it again, however. Even though Kate Beckinsale made me cry. It was quite long, and while I appreciated many aspects of it, there's no real love.

Except maybe of the makeup. I loved the makeup.

I was watching the aviation stuff closely and was surprised that it was pretty accurate. A minor continuity problem with one of the planes (the shiny monoplace racer) and the crash of the XF-11 was a little different than what I had read... minor stuff, basicly.

The point of the makeup is to fit in so seamlessly that you don't realize that's what you're seeing.

That's also the point of CGI and stunt doubles -- I'd like to think I'm savvy about them too.

That's also the point of CGI and stunt doubles -- I'd like to think I'm savvy about them too.

True. And yet even knowing that, don't they sometimes manage to fool you?

I mean, the CGI in Hotel Rwanda completely fooled me.

And yet even knowing that, don't they sometimes manage to fool you?

Absolutely. And then I bang my head and think "How naive!" and am slightly less likely to fall for it again.

Absolutely. And then I bang my head and think "How naive!" and am slightly less likely to fall for it again.

Oh, okay. Carry on, then.

I'm watching Guess Who's Coming to Dinner.

I finally really get the Katherine Hepburn love. The only other comedy I've seen her in is Philadelphia Story, in which her being, IMO, too old for the part put me off a bit. Off to add to my queue.

In the 80's, wasn't AZT still sort of difficult to come by, especially for penniless Bohemians?

I would think, but wikipedia says AZT was in use then, so I guess it's *barely* possible. But the musical's attitude about "living with living with living with/not dying from disease" strikes me as much more a 90's thing than an 80's one.

And lots of the lyrics are late 90's specific- it's set in the tech boom, and the line "Living in America at the end of the millenium..".

Not to mention that the entire joke about Alexi giving 15 different ways to reach her doesn't make much sense if you set the musical in an era when cell phones came in briefcases and very few people outside universities and labs used email. She's cutting edge, but not *that* cutting edge.

I'm hoping it's just a rumor. Or maybe they're trying to make it like the Jim Sheridan movie "In America," where there are elements of several different eras mixed for an out-of-time feeling.