Was She's All That really that much more successful than Can't Hardly Wait?

And don't they both owe Clueless a lot for softening the market?

That's a point. I don't remember when/why I deemed it, say, a cultural touchstone, but there may be a better candidate for "kicking off the teen movie craze of the 90s which bled into the 00s."

I agree that X-Men was hysterically successful, but there was still quite a lull between that and a bunch of high-profile actors putting on the spandex.

Well, there was a lull, yes, because the movies had to get made. I think after X-Men is when all the online buzz involved comic-book movies, because you had a big-name director attached to one. Thus Ang Lee took Hulk and John Woo took Ninja Turtles... which never managed to surface. If not X-Men, what would you suggest? Spider-Man ?

Damn. How wrong was I? Clueless did $56M on twice that budget. Shows how off-kilter my perceptions are. And I have to mentally be nicer to FPJr too. This bites.

Hey, does this mean I was more right than ita?

savors this moment

If nothing else, I give She's All That props for embodying so many of the genre tropes that Not Another Teen Movie sent up so hilariously.

Watched Denied today. The editing made Lost Highway look linear, and I'll bet more than half the run time was taken up by black screens between scenelets. Sound and picture quality made me wonder if I was following in Helen Keller's footsteps. If you're tempted to watch this movie, look at this promotional shot instead. It's much better than anything actually in the movie.

Me, I like Netflix because they were there first, and have the luxury of never having me had a confrontation with idiot clerks, which drove me away from Blockbuster as soon as I first heard of Netflix. Sour taste, not gone.

That's very fair. I have no idea about edited dvd's, but what a crappy idea, either way. I'm just thinking $2 x 12= a little more than one free month! Awesome. But I don't think I could really afford it, either way. My paycheck basically covers grocery shopping and the occasional bookstore necessity visit. And the only dvd player that I have is my computer. Of course, I do have the AV cables to connect my computer to my tv, but I think there's only a one inch difference in screen size, so that's not particularly helpful. Oh well. Either way, I'll be out of school soon, so hopefully I can afford things one day in the nearish future. I'm just window shopping, for now.

I don't remember when/why I deemed it, say, a cultural touchstone

Mmm. Can you quote anything from it? Did it launch careers? What are your criteria for touchstone? I'd not say Can't Hardly Wait is a competitor in that regard (just that it's better -- it is, I swear!), but Clueless fills that spot a lot better.

As for comics -- if you sort the top-grossing comic book movies:

Movie YearGross 1Spider-man2002403.7 2Spider-man 22004368.2 3Batman1989251.1 4Men In Black1997250.6 5X2: X-Men United2003214.9 6Men In Black 22002190.4 7Batman Forever1995184 8Batman Returns1992162.8 9X-Men2000157.1 10Teenage Mutant Turtles1990135.2 11Superman1978134.2 12Hulk2003132.1 13The Mask1994119.9 14Superman 21981108.1 15Batman and Robin1997107.2 16Road to Perdition2002104.4 17Dick Tracy1990103.7 18Daredevil2003102.5 19Casper1995100.3 20Blade 2200282.3

by year:

Movie YearGross Superman1978134.2 Superman 21981108.1 Batman1989251.1 Teenage Mutant Turtles1990135.2 Dick Tracy1990103.7 Batman Returns1992162.8 The Mask1994119.9 Batman Forever1995184 Casper1995100.3 Men In Black1997250.6 Batman and Robin1997107.2 X-Men2000157.1 Spider-man2002403.7 Men In Black 22002190.4 Road to Perdition2002104.4 Blade 2200282.3 X2: X-Men United2003214.9 Hulk2003132.1 Daredevil2003102.5 Spider-man 22004368.2

I don't see enough of a gap or a bump in $$ to credit any of them with revitalising the market. And it's just wrong (even if technically right) to see a couple of those flicks up there.

Can you quote anything from it?

Rachel: "I'm not smart."
Freddie: "What?"
Rachel: "I'm not smart. I can't help you with your homework, if that's what you're trying to do here."
Freddie: "I have the third-highest GPA in the class."

Rachel: "I feel just like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman, only without the whole hooker thing."

Freddie: "I want you to help me with art."
Rachel: "You don't take art." (memorable because reprised later)

Freddie: "Don't miss, boy, don't miss. We're counting on you."....et ceterea...*plop* "Sooner or later, you have to miss." *APPLAUSE*

I can quote from it. More than I can from Can't Hardly Wait or Clueless. Even though I fully acknowledge that both of them are superior films. I think I might consider it a cultural touchstone if for no other reason than so many movies with nearly the exact same plotline have been worse (see: "Never Been Kissed") and still made money.

Okay, can anyone not admittedly obsessed with the genre do that? Do you see what I mean? You're putting more cult into cultural touchstone than I would.

It was my impression (and those are being sore tested) that Clueless was a movie that got talked about, that gave Alicia Silverstone a big leg up, spawned a TV show -- that sort of touching the stone of culture. Which makes me now realise, that when I hear "as if!" in my head, it's her voice (much like "Ew!" has been coopted by Rachel Bilson).

I think I might consider it a cultural touchstone if for no other reason than so many movies with nearly the exact same plotline have been worse (see: "Never Been Kissed") and still made money.

I think that makes Pygmalion a cultural touchstone, not She's All That.

I think that makes Pygmalion a cultural touchstone, not She's All That.

Haha. Good point.

I'm actually kind of worried that I remember so many bits from She's All That. Considering I've really only seen it once and was not that impressed. And I saw it during a week of obsessive watching of movies from that period, so I saw all kinds of other movies, some much better (Ten Things I Hate About You) and some much worse (Drive me Crazy) and don't think I have as clear a memory of the scenes in ANY of the movies as I do for that one. At least not of any of them that I haven't watched many times since.

Frankly, I don't think any movie of this genre can possibly qualify as a cultural touchstone in any outside-of-its-own-little-world sort of way. The vast majority of the audience for these movies is purely an "entertain me once and I'll forget about it" audience, not one that uses it to define their worlds.

For the people in their target demographic, I'd say the cultural touchstones for the population at large are Austin Powers, for example. And Lord of the Rings (which is one for everybody), and maybe American Pie a little. The Teen Movies that get the credit and get quoted and remembered are the gross funny ones, not the sappy cute ones. At least so far.

Sappy and cute teen movies havn't really owned an era since Molly Ringwald stopped working.

Sappy and cute teen movies havn't really owned an era since Molly Ringwald stopped working.

Hey there was plenty of gross in those movie, from the Donger in the tree, to Anthony Michael Hall's underwear hunt. Besides which American Pie (the first one anyway) is a pretty sweet movie.