After Rebecca says it will make him stronger she says "believe me." My take is that she is speaking from her experience. I think the implication is that what Brandt's games do is give the illusion of strength. What he has just experienced is the real deal.

I think the implication is that what Brandt's games do is give the illusion of strength. What he has just experienced is the real deal.

Brandt's assrape, you mean? The *actual* crime? That's not a "real deal" version of S&M.

I understand that not everyone has my opinion, and that's cool.

Bad top. No biscuit.

This may be my favorite saying ever. May I tag?

I think the implication is that what Brandt's games do is give the illusion of strength. What he has just experienced is the real deal.

But this has been kind of bothering me too. It implies that Brandt, at least, and maybe SM in general, is "playing at" things he doesn't understand, like a suburban teenager playing at being a gang member, and that he will be -- should be -- shocked out of it by encountering the "real thing," as though it were a childish phase.

It's hard to say about Brandt, because he's a fictional creation whose actions we see very little of, but it's unjust when applied to SM in general. Most people in SM are perfectly aware that actual sexual violence is nothing they want at all. In addition, there are a lot of people who have encountered the "real thing" and are into SM anyway.

ETA: Okay, well, obviously it was going to be a crosspost, because it took me so damn long to type! Anyway, what Steph said.

The "real deal" I was talking about is the strength gained from surviving a truly scary experience.

I see. It wasn't clear because I don't think he'd "experienced" a gain in strength just yet. But also because I'm not entirely convinced about what the women gained from scenes with him being an illusion, either.

"If he *hadn't* decided to kill himself, our good guys woulda been too late,"

It was too late. He did exactly what he wanted -- raped and killed a bunch of women, raped a guy, killed himself. All the FBI did was cleanup. Didn't stop a damn thing, or save anyone.

The newbie doesn't know where the new thread-title picking is done these days. Here?

Newbie with user id of 85. Sure.

I like the interpretation of Rebecca's final line being about the difference between simulated violence where the "victim" is in control (Brandt's deal), and violent crime, where even the perpetrator is only nominally in control. As in he said his deal would make her stronger (which strikes me as overly romantic), and she was more "what does not kill you, but kinda almost does, will make you stronger."

I think they're both wrong, but I still like the line and my reading thereof.

I don't like Rebecca much. I understand Rachel's doing exactly the right job, just like Morena was doing the right Inara.

She's just bland to me. I'm waiting for all the other bits.

It was too late. He did exactly what he wanted -- raped and killed a bunch of women, raped a guy, killed himself. All the FBI did was cleanup. Didn't stop a damn thing, or save anyone.

"The good guys are always stalwart and true, the bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies, and everybody lives happily ever after."

Tim wrote that.

The strenght from S&M may not be an illusion but I think it is on an entirely different level. I think knowing in the back of your mind you are not really in danger changes a lot.

But that was not my real point. What I saw was Rebecca explaining her understanding of what he had experienced just as he explained his games to her.