The "real deal" I was talking about is the strength gained from surviving a truly scary experience.

I see. It wasn't clear because I don't think he'd "experienced" a gain in strength just yet. But also because I'm not entirely convinced about what the women gained from scenes with him being an illusion, either.

"If he *hadn't* decided to kill himself, our good guys woulda been too late,"

It was too late. He did exactly what he wanted -- raped and killed a bunch of women, raped a guy, killed himself. All the FBI did was cleanup. Didn't stop a damn thing, or save anyone.

The newbie doesn't know where the new thread-title picking is done these days. Here?

Newbie with user id of 85. Sure.

I like the interpretation of Rebecca's final line being about the difference between simulated violence where the "victim" is in control (Brandt's deal), and violent crime, where even the perpetrator is only nominally in control. As in he said his deal would make her stronger (which strikes me as overly romantic), and she was more "what does not kill you, but kinda almost does, will make you stronger."

I think they're both wrong, but I still like the line and my reading thereof.

I don't like Rebecca much. I understand Rachel's doing exactly the right job, just like Morena was doing the right Inara.

She's just bland to me. I'm waiting for all the other bits.

It was too late. He did exactly what he wanted -- raped and killed a bunch of women, raped a guy, killed himself. All the FBI did was cleanup. Didn't stop a damn thing, or save anyone.

"The good guys are always stalwart and true, the bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies, and everybody lives happily ever after."

Tim wrote that.

The strenght from S&M may not be an illusion but I think it is on an entirely different level. I think knowing in the back of your mind you are not really in danger changes a lot.

But that was not my real point. What I saw was Rebecca explaining her understanding of what he had experienced just as he explained his games to her.

It implies that Brandt, at least, and maybe SM in general, is "playing at" things he doesn't understand,

I think that was pretty clear, Brandt was a poser. he only wanted to play the game, like Rebecca said, he'd never seen real fear before.

The strenght from S&M may not be an illusion

I don't see where there's any strength inherent in it. Some people may come out stronger, some weaker, some unchanged.

Brandt was a poser. he only wanted to play the game

Play which game? Was he playing at S&M, or is S&M playing at true violence?

I'm with Steph -- why can't tying up be tying up? Why can't people just find that a turnon? It's like a rape fantasy not actually having a damned thing to do with rape itself. An episode highlighting that for the viewer -- no biggie. But I don't think the implication that S&M is pretending (rather than a goal in and of itself) is fair.

May I tag?

Of course.

I don't have a horse in this race, but I always thought that "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is hogwash. There are lots and lots and LOTS of people on this earth who suffer, and their suffering is crippling, and they never recover. Some people recover, for wide variation in the definition of "recover," but plenty of people just don't.

If that were not so, then PTSD would not be in the DSM.