Thanks, JohnS.

Cyteen's description at Amazon looks pretty interesting. I'll add it to my "look for at library" list.

Cyteen is a fascinating book, but it might be a little dense. I had to read it twice to be sure I wasn't sure. But I liked it.

I loved Orson Scott Card, but he makes Joss's absent father trope look like nothing when he pulls out the traumatized young boy guns.

Plus I want to smack him for the Seventh Son crap.

I stopped reading SF for a while, because all I wanted was Bull, Brust or Butler, and they were going too slowly.

I stopped reading SF for a while, because all I wanted was Bull, Brust or Butler, and they were going too slowly.

I've been through phases exactly like that. Particularly with Emma and Steven and their contemporaries. One time what I did to get out of it, was to go back and pore over lists of stuff that Terri Windling was editing for Ace (and then Tor) and make sure I had read all of it. I found a few new authors and books that way. The shortcut way to do this is to pull out the Year's Best Fantasy and Horror that she edits with Ellen Datlow and scan that for unread writers.

I loved Orson Scott Card, but he makes Joss's absent father trope look like nothing when he pulls out the traumatized young boy guns.

So much Word. He wore me out. I haven't gone back to read him since.

I love OSC, although I got bored with Alvin Maker about three books in. All the others were pretty much awesome. I HATED Xenocide, but the Ender books after that - Ender's Shadow and Puppet Masters - were great. Also adore Brust and have read them all about fifty times. Haven't read enough Bull. Butler - I really liked that series about the Seeds and the Garden (memfault and too lazy to Google) and there was one more, but need to read the rest of them.

I need to rub Orson Scott Card all over with a child development textbook. Also, a thesaurus. Maybe a psychiatrist too.

Maybe I could just lock him in a room with 10 toddlers and have them do my work for me?

Cyteen was the Cherryh book I tried, and it didn't work on me. I kept being distracted by the authorial tactics, and hated the protagonists. I keep feeling like I ought to read more of Cherryh, but in that homework way and not in the way that actually puts her high on my to-do list.

Also I am on the Dragaera mailing list and they talk about Buffy sometimes. One of the posters has a .sig with a Buffy quote. Brust himself posts on the list not infrequently, usually to "clear up" some dispute by saying something even more controversial. He's like Joss that way.

ETA Ooh, ooh, I forgot to mention Samuel R. Delany. I LOVE him.

I HATED Xenocide

Xenocide was fine except for the fact that I wanted to bitchslap the little Chinese girl with OCD or the interplanetary equivalent. Children of the Mind kind of sucked, however. The first two Ender books rock, and the new Ender books are very interesting in all their political machinations and whatnot.

Oh yeah, forgot about Children of the Mind. I must have blocked it from my memory due to the aforementioned suckage.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Orson Scott Card. I love the Ender books and Pastwatch.

Well, to be fair, the conversation did start out at HARD science fiction writers, and, love Card though i do, he's not hard.

Pastwatch was very cool. I like all of the Ender books, especially the first run, though Xenocide and Children of the Mind were definitely far worse than the first two. (Also, they were originally intended to be one novel, which I can tell on reading.) But I've probably read Ender's Game 20-plus times, it still stands as his masterpiece. Read his first two Alvin Makers, but never got any further - they were pretty cool, though. Liked Songmaster, Wyrms, and Treason too. I also really like his short stories, or many of them, and Maps in the Mirror, his entire collection, is now in print again. I need to pick up a copy...

I think Forever War and Starship Troopers serve as perfect counterpoints, still. I usually recommend both of them to people interested in space-war science fiction. I love them both.

I think I'll be leaving this coffeehouse soon and finding a bookstore...

Well, to be fair, the conversation did start out at HARD science fiction writers, and, love Card though i do, he's not hard.

How do you define a "hard science fiction writer"?

(Also, they were originally intended to be one novel, which I can tell on reading.)

Yes, they were, and I'm kind of glad they were split up, cause it allows me to hate Children of the Mind on its own while still being able to like most of Xenocide.