And, DAMN, the name of tonight's ep -- "Not Fade Away."
Does the Shanshu thing mean that Spike gets the prize? Of course, he'd have to survive the fight. (God save me from the badfic on Spike's Shanshu.)
Wash: Well, I wash my hands of it. It's a hopeless case. I'll read a nice poem at the funeral. Something with imagery. Zoe: You could lock the door and keep the power-hungry maniac at bay. Wash: Oh, no, I'm starting to like this poetry idea now. Here lies my beloved Zoe, my autumn flower, somewhat less attractive now she's all corpsified and gross...
'Shindig'
Angel 5: Is That It? Am I Done?
[NAFDA] This is where we talk about the show! Anything that's aired in the US (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though -- if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.
Steph L. - May 19, 2004 5:57:01 pm PDT #819 of 3531
I look more rad than Lutheranism
Madrigal Costello - May 19, 2004 5:57:19 pm PDT #820 of 3531
It's a remora, dimwit.
I actually thought it'd be more likely that Angel would have arranged for Harmony to get a soul and a shot at a shanshu than stake her. After all, she was human recently enough to miss it.
Lilty Cash - May 19, 2004 5:58:12 pm PDT #821 of 3531
"You see? THAT's what they want. Love, and a bit with a dog."
Well I won't back down
No I won't back down
You can stand me up at the gates of hell and I won't back down
- Tom Petty
SailAweigh - May 19, 2004 6:00:01 pm PDT #822 of 3531
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb
Does the Shanshu thing mean that Spike gets the prize? Of course, he'd have to survive the fight.
I'm not so sure Angel could sign away the Shanshu if it's his destiny. Somehow "The House Always Wins" left me with the feeling that Angel would avert the Apocalypse and he would Shanshu, no ifs, ands or buts. It's Prophecy. Buffy found out the hard way that Prophecy happens. You can subvert it after the fact, but not before.
Madrigal Costello - May 19, 2004 6:01:57 pm PDT #823 of 3531
It's a remora, dimwit.
The certain thing is that some souled vampire is going to get the Shanshu - so it could be neither Angel nor Spike. Or people could be working off an incorrect translation and it actually means something entirely different - not that he'll just be made human, but that he'll be returned to his human life before he was turned.
Polter-Cow - May 19, 2004 6:08:08 pm PDT #824 of 3531
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!
not that he'll just be made human, but that he'll be returned to his human life before he was turned.
Maybe Angel's already Shanshu'ed, and he got sent back it time to become Liam again, and that's where we picked up the story. Bum bum BUM!
Micole - May 19, 2004 6:12:15 pm PDT #825 of 3531
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.
I was doing okay and dealing with my grief and then the WB's thank you came up and ...
uh, yeah, that's when the large font and the boldface happened.
Anyway. Slowly collecting thoughts:
There's a lot of fruitful ambiguity in key moments to chew over, but I come down in favor of Angel having told Lorne to kill Lindsey, because of the bitterness in the last Angel/Lorne exchanges and because of the way Angel told Eve Lindsey wasn't coming back. And I think that this offers a final twist or a final confirmation on the corruption that's seemed to be going on this season, that actually was going on this season -- the corruption or the pragmatism, take your pick.
Angel had good reason to suspect Lindsey would flip sides; the only way to make sense of Lindsey's motivation for this season is to go back to S1 and the beginning of S2, and how it was squeamishness more than conscience that drove Lindsey to good deeds in S1, and personal loss and betrayal more than morality that drove Lindsey to walk out on W&H in S2. When we first met Lindsey, he was a scholarship boy eaten up by wanting the things he'd never had, and staring in the abyss of his own hunger even after he'd taken that sweet-sour bite; so he left it all behind, but ambition and resentment and wanting (Angel, or W&H, or just whatever prize he could get)--these things took over.
I could have used more backup for that interpretation this season, but I'm willing to go with it.
So we have Lindsey, and he's unreliable. And even if he's reliable, he wants W&H. He wants to be the new king after the old one dies. Killing him off delays W&H's recuperation, even if only for a little while. Killing him off stretches out that pyrrhic victory, just a bit more.
And at the same time, it's Angel sacrificing an ally, if not an innocent. Like Angel sacrificed Drogyn. Angel choosing the lesser evil for a greater goal. If his dearest friends are potential sacrifices on the altar of this victory, damn sure he's gonna throw Lindsey on the pyre, too.
Lorne's bitterness may be that he's not the guy who likes violence; that he can't stand seeing the good guys make bad choices; that people he cared for are dead, and he's left with nothing, not even who he thought he was.
billytea - May 19, 2004 6:15:46 pm PDT #826 of 3531
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.
That was beautiful. What a send-off. For me, it was note-perfect.
t sigh And now I really do have to study. But, so good.
ted r - May 19, 2004 6:16:47 pm PDT #827 of 3531
"You got twelve, and they got twelve. The old ladies are just as good as you are." -Dr. Einstein
Had a great time at Trudy's viewing party (thanks Trudy and guests!).
Alas, plane to catch in the morning so no time to read the comments or sum up my feelings, except I thought it a flawless end to a great season. (And, y'know, series.)
I thought the "thanks from your friends at the WB who stabbed you in the back" was also sort of fitting in a Bush's America kind of way.
When I get back I promise to read all gazillion Angel posts I missed. (Or maybe not ALL...)
askye - May 19, 2004 6:17:36 pm PDT #828 of 3531
Thrive to spite them
What Micole said.