I'm also assuming that we would never have gotten any more backstory on [Hamilton & Frogyn's] relationship than that one line, because throwaway lines are useful in bringing the illusion of depth to world-building.

Sometimes. Other times they're just dangling threads left there to drive the fans crazy.

Signed, Still Bitter About Halfrek's "William?"

Angel says to me that there can be grace even in darkness; Buffy says to me that that you can get a damn generator and turn the lights on.

Possibly why I love AtS more than BtVS. I've got more darkness than generators.

Sometimes. Other times they're just dangling threads left there to drive the fans crazy.

Signed, Still Bitter About Halfrek's "William?"

Think someone from ME did eventually confirm that Halfrek and Cecily were the same person.

One that still drives me nuts is from TOGOM, Lorne talking to Geo about what happened in Miami. The vagueness of what happened just bugs me, like Lindsey would say, "I want details."

Think someone from ME did eventually confirm that Halfrek and Cecily were the same person.

Not exactly. Marti said they wanted to use the actress again, but knew the fans would recognize her, so they wrote in the little, "William" to acknowledge it.

I think it may have something to do with Buffy being based on the idea of rewriting the sacrificial death of girls to give hope--so she had to live; and Angel being based on a more traditional idea of atonement, so that the proper tragic ending, where he dies but the torch is passed on, doesn't strike me as violating the precept of the series.

Micole, I need to get another folder for my "why I love Micole" citations. This is perfect. And correct. And wonderful.

Well, I didn't get that far into it. I think it was mostly that I find Buffy a fundamentally hopeful show--that explains a lot about my frustration with S6 and S7, really--whereas Angel, not so much. Angel says to me that there can be grace even in darkness; Buffy says to me that that you can get a damn generator and turn the lights on.

Oh! Need new folder for Katie, too. This is beautiful. Katie, may I please tag this part:

Angel says to me that there can be grace even in darkness; Buffy says to me that that you can get a damn generator and turn the lights on.

t love

Dang. A girl goes to staff meetings all day and misses the birth of a whole new, super-sad thread. I skimmed, but one topic jumped out that I just went over with a friend.

During Drogyn's murder, I kept thinking back to Illyria and Angel's conversation in 'Time Bomb' about serving nothing but your ambition, etc. I think that Drogyn really might have been collateral damage to Angel. The mission is all that matters to him now- from the sound of this speech to the gang at the end, he's taking them ALL on a suicide mission. They're all expendable.

Angel isn't Angelus, but maybe the corrupt ruler Illyria was describing to Spike still isn't that far off.

The mission is all that matters to him now- from the sound of this speech to the gang at the end, he's taking them ALL on a suicide mission. They're all expendable.

The small hole in that theory is that he bothered to send Wolfgirl and family away. Though that could be explained away as them being non-combatants.

I did say it was small.

IIRC, it's something Tim said -- to the end of "Show called 'Angel' not 'Needy Multi-Ethnic Street Kids'" to explain why more time wasn't spent with Gunn's gang.

That was me. My first interaction with Tim, me bitching about Gunn. He added the capitalization.

he's taking them ALL on a suicide mission. They're all expendable.

He's taking himself on a suicide mission, too. He's as expendable as any of them. And he gave them the option to say no.

Of course Drogyn is immortal so maybe he just needs some ointment for a broken neck.

Did they state Drogyn was immortal? Or did they state he had eternal youth? It seems like the hit that Angel put out on him wasn't meant to kill him -- if it couldn't kill him, why mention the non-lethal nature?