The Punisher is clearly evil. At least, so says the Knights of the Old Republic-conditinoed kliling people of is of the Dark Side-me. He kills EVERYBODY who even begins to commit a 'crime'.

Sure, Bats took advantage of what he has access to. He would have been stupid not to. Nonetheless, he's mastered, what? 25 major martial arts, or something ridiculous like that? He's a god at making people succumb to his will, which, luckily, is rarely (if ever!) their death. Bet he'd kill the Joker, if given a chance, but that's a personal opinion. Most people, he doesn't kill them. Him or his disciples. That I respect.

Know very little about any of the multitude (or so I gather) of GLs, but can't bring myself to care. Sure, they're in great shape, and have magic rings, but whatever. The GL corps may keep order in most of the universe, but in the Earth of the DC Universe, we've got Superman and Batman to control things. Fuck our own personal GL.

Sure, he doesn't have powers, but he's got a butler, a motorbike, a car, a submarine and jetplane. He's got a multi million dollar corperation, the best gadgets money can buy, one of the best PC's on the planet, he's buddy'd up to the commish, and therefore enjoys tacit approval from the cops. Compare that to say, Spidey. Powers, yes, but who has it easier?

But -- he spent years being trained in all kinds of I-can-kill-your-ass-dead martial arts. That's impressive for someone with no mutant-ly enhanced power.

t edit Heh. x-posty with NovaChild.

But -- he spent years being trained in all kinds of I-can-kill-your-ass-dead martial arts. That's impressive for someone with no mutant-ly enhanced power.

Oh, yes. Again, don't get me wrong. It's not like he's Booster Gold or anything. You don't get the pinnacle of human endeavour status just handed to you (unless you're Captain America, of course). All I'm saying, is he had a nice big boost at the start, and a lot of toys to help him along today. Even in the sense of 'Oh look. There's a guy in Nepal who can take on 35 yakuza at the same time while eating a sandwich. I gotta learn me some of that. Alfred! Ready the good jet.'

Meanwhile Spidey straps his homemade web shooters on under his homemade costume and takes his chances with Firelord while the NYPD takes pot shots at him because they believe what they read in the papers. All the this is going on at the exact same time he's supposed to be across town telling Mary Jane why he stood her up last time (without telling her that he was too busy trying to keep Venom from eating his brain) while taking Aunt May to the hospital again and figuring how, or if, he's going to make rent this month. Go team Spidey.

The Punisher is clearly evil. At least, so says the Knights of the Old Republic-conditinoed kliling people of is of the Dark Side-me. He kills EVERYBODY who even begins to commit a 'crime'.

Would it be better if he waited 'til they were finished? It's not like he's roaming the streets gunning down jaywalkers and litterbugs. He's very careful about collateral damage and dead bystanders. Except when Garth Ennis is writing him, of course.

I just read an interview with Joss, in which he said if he ran Marvel, he'd get rid of The Punisher.

Well, aside from the whole killing folks thing, there's some logistical problems with Frank as regards to time. He's a 'nam vet, which dates him pretty specifically in the slow aging Marvel Universe. They serumed up most of their WWII vets like Nick Fury and Cap to keep them around, but that's not really fitting for The Punisher. But the longer he stays near the same age while the Vietnam war recedes further into the past, the odder it looks. It's a conundrum. The movie made him a Gulf War vet instead, but It doesn't have the same impact, dramatically.

The Punisher is clearly evil. At least, so says the Knights of the Old Republic-conditinoed kliling people of is of the Dark Side-me. He kills EVERYBODY who even begins to commit a 'crime'.

Well, depends on the crime. He doesn't shoot jaywalkers anymore.

Though he is amoral to the extreme. In the latest issue of Punisher, he kills a very old ally, because he was tangentially related to a scheme to finance the war on terror using heroin.

I admit to knowing very little about The Punisher. Or X-Men, or Spidey, or Marvel in general. I'm a DC man by trade (when I read mainstream comics at all.) I'm basically basing my Punisher opinions on what I've hard and read from second-hand sources, and you can feel free to ignore me.

On the other hand, I think guns are for pussies. Cool superheroes use their fists. Or lightsabers.

The GL corps may keep order in most of the universe, but in the Earth of the DC Universe, we've got Superman and Batman to control things. Fuck our own personal GL.

The corps got massively fucked a while back. Ties into why Hal went batshit.

So, NSM for order, order in the universe at the moment. Though after his stint as Ion, Kyle went with the making things better.

Sure, he doesn't have powers, but he's got a butler, a motorbike, a car, a submarine and jetplane. He's got a multi million dollar corperation, the best gadgets money can buy, one of the best PC's on the planet, he's buddy'd up to the commish, and therefore enjoys tacit approval from the cops. Compare that to say, Spidey. Powers, yes, but who has it easier?

The commish retired after being shot. The GCPD crew is wary and resents him. His family, such as it is, is a mess of emotional issues in part because Batman can't open up to them. He has almost no relationship with himself as Bruce Wayne. He's recently hosed a relationship he could have had with Selina. They have it rough in different ways.

Bet he'd kill the Joker, if given a chance, but that's a personal opinion.

He's had chances. He hasn't. Though Dick did, that one time. Just for a second.

He's had chances. He hasn't. Though Dick did, that one time. Just for a second.

Okay. I bow to your superior knowledge. (shrug)

Hey, speaking of Batman, he's a lot like that Angel fellow, huh? Dark, mysterious, related to bats somehow? (I hear bats and vampires are related).

Still want more Angel.

Yeah, but Batman had a gay sidekick, whereas Angel just had Spike.