It is? This was the first place I'd heard of it. And Allyson isn't all over the net.

She is, however, at the Bronze Beta (which is far more public than here) under that screen name. I think it would have been more telling of B.org lurkdom if Allyson's TwoP name had been used, as it would have meant Strega hung around here enough to connect the two.

During my 4th finale rewatch today, I noticed something about my Most Satisfying Moment: Vail's head appears to decay and crumble into dust in the process of Illyria's fist smashing through it. Now it may be that he's a sort of demon that disintegrates upon death like vampires do, or that it was simply a less-than-perfect bit of CGI. But it's also possible that Illyria is not quite so powerless as everyone assumed, and that, with enough emotional kick, it was able to literally punch Vail into next week... or next millenium.

At any rate, in purely unfounded speculation about hypothetical post-credits events, Illyria is the character I see as most likely to survive the Butch & Sundance ending, as she's more powerful than any of the Senior Partners' minions and I don't see them risking the loss of more of their strength via personally pumping up drinkable lackeys. Likewise, if Angel's supercharge from Hamilton doesn't fade too quickly, he might make it through, though the combo of well-known weaknesses and being the focus of the Senior Partners' ire makes that a bit dicier. I can't see a believable scenario that has Spike and Gunn surviving.

She is, however, at the Bronze Beta (which is far more public than here) under that screen name. I think it would have been more telling of B.org lurkdom if Allyson's TwoP name had been used, as it would have meant Strega hung around here enough to connect the two.

It is a Buffista shout-out, though. For serious. Just so you know.

I can't see a believable scenario that has Spike and Gunn surviving.

Your belief system needs tinkering. The space monkeys that arrive to save the day? Totally plausible.

Well, I did posit one possible scenario to DXMachina that arises from two bits of Illyria info but has the drawback of overshadowing Angel in his own series finale.

In "Time Bomb," Illyria makes the apparently throwaway comment that it IS its power. Given that it was initially a formless spirit released from its sarcophagus, what if that wasn't hyperbole? What if most of its power and spiritual essence is in that pocket dimension, still self-aware and thinking of itself as Illyria?

Such a thing might not retain any attachments to the humans it interacted with, but it might still want to manifest on earth and make its will known. Illyria possessed dimension travel powers, so it would probably be able to return under its own power if self-awareness is a given. And the problem of a too-fragile host could be solved by its previously mentioned ability to spread itself across the souls of thousands or hundreds of thousands of human beings.

Imagine the final battle we saw the beginnings of in light of everyone in downtown L.A. suddenly becoming super-powered Blue Meanies and joining the fray.

Hey, Polter-Cow -- thanks for the e-mail. I really appreciate it.

Imagine the final battle we saw the beginnings of in light of everyone in downtown L.A. suddenly becoming super-powered Blue Meanies and joining the fray.

Huh. Interesting. Sound like any series finale you know?

And you're welcome, Tep. 'twas my pleasure.

This is actually the post that I wrote up right after the finale aired, so my apologies if you've already read it on TWoP or on my LJ. Blame P-C! Also, I was running on pure emotion so it's kind of corny and there is a lot of swearing. I like to swear.

I have to say that I think this was the fucking perfect ending for this show. Seriously. I could not be more pleased with the last scene. Even the monsters were scary, and loud, and creepy, mostly because they were shot in the shadows.

The MoG? All dead. Doyle, Cordy, Fred, Wes, Gunn (in 10 minutes, I believe her and he seemed to know it too). That's five down. The five will be a sacrifice and all that jazz. But, Angel knows Connor still lives. And that's all he needs. I couldn't be happier that at the end of this journey, the love he has for his child is what is at the core of his will to continue. As long as he knows Connor is alive, they can't beat him. That shit, is beautiful.

Connor coming to save his daddy? Oh god. I've never loved him more. I knew he would help. I just knew it. I wouldn't have bought it if he hadn't. And he's grateful. It's all so lovely.

Gunn was so fucking cool in this episode. The eject-o stakes? Nice call on the shout out to City of. His strut into the campaign office? Tussling with some vamps again? Meeting up with Anne? Just wonderful. Perfect last hour for Gunn.

Spike reading his poetry at the bar? Fucking awesome. I thought it was such a great way to stay true to what is still at the heart of William, with the Spike bravado thrown in there. Bloody lovely.

Wesley. This really broke me. I suspected almost all season that we'd see the end of Wes, but I totally wasn't ready when it actually happened. I mean, it's Wesley. And I couldn't care less about Fred/Wesley, but I got really choked up when Illyria changed into Fred. It was such a wonderful callback to Lie to Me. Just gut wrenching and so very human. I am going to blame Joss for the "my love" line since I think he's corny like that. Even so, the scene was great. Loved watching Illyria as Fred turn around to confront Vail and then turn back into Illyria as she struck. Rocked.

Lorne. I guess that Angel told him to shoot Lindsey, since Angel seemed to be aware that Lindsey wouldn't be returning. Perfect that Lindsey's last word was "Angel". Fitting.

Angel. I just love this guy. I don't even think I can really gather my thoughts about him right now. His signing away his shanshu caught me off guard, but I had no doubt that he would do it. It's not about the reward, it's about the fight.

We were told in Amends what his story would be about:

Strong is fighting! It's hard, and it's painful, and it's every day. It's what we have to do. And we can do it together.

The premise was held up many times, one of the most noteable being in Epiphany:

If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters -- then all that matters is what we do. 'Cause that's all there is. What we do, now, today.

This is not the show where we will see a glorious end. Or any end at all.

This is the show where heroes gratefully accept an imperfect father's love and continue on for him, make another useless fireball even though they know they're dead in the water, keep playing the annoying game, keep packing the boxes into the truck, make the next 10 minutes memorable, finally get themselves a good brawl, wanna slay the dragon.

This is the show where the final line is "Let's go to work"? It sure fucking is.

In fact, I think I would be really, really annoyed if this story was continued in some tv movies or whatever. I like this ending. I want to have a thousand of its babies.

KATE!

Glad you brought it over, and I'm always happy to read it again.

Kate, I'm right there with you on most of that, except the movie, etc thing.

In the Universe where Angel lives, there are other stories to tell. I agree with you that any movie should not be his story, but if he becomes a player in someone else's story, that seems natural to me (if, you know, done well).

In the end, in this 'Verse, I think we get both. I'd love to see the story of what I call the Fray-inducing-event. The big final fight. But I know that Fray happens, that the fight continues, even if it's done as far as a given set of soldiers know, it's not done.

A moment to share my brain-worm:

For each time he falls he shall rise again
And woe to the wicked.

eta: FTR, I just caught up.

I'm all with you, OKate. Loved the finale, felt it couldn't have ended any other way. Cried at the right times, but didn't feel bad that it ended. Actually, I felt proud. Proud of the MoG, proud of the writers. Proud to have loved my dead gay show. May it live in DVDs forever.

I just noticed that there isn't nearly as much swearing in there as I had originally thought there was.

I could deal with the story being continued in movies, but it really depends on how it's done, I suppose. I'm just so satisfied right now that I'd hate to lose that.