I've been saving my S2 and S3 DVDs. If the rerun of Angel--assuming they run re-runs, the bastards--doesn't please, I'll pop in a DVD and catch an old episode. Hubby lost my tape of Smile Time, so I'm hoping to at least see that again. "Which of you short-bus bastards turned the CEO of Wolfram & Hart into a puppet?" and "Spike! Just turn around and walk away!"

others were calling the most perfect thing ever, full of deep metaphorical meaning that touched their hearts

Really? Where? This sounds like fun!

The tvtome rating is an impressive 9.21 for the finale. I think "yay" is a pretty general consensus.

Faith=Hot

I just have to disagree with this, here. Faith ≠ Hot, Faith > Hot.

The only thing that bothered me was the Drogyn thing.

There was a specific point made that Drogyn had been given, not immortality, but "eternal youth." He didn't look young when Angel killed him. He was withered and his hair was faded and almost gone. There was also the thing about him not being able to lie. Now I don't remember, and I don't have time, blast it, for a rewatch, but was the eternal youth tied to the not-lying? As in, if he did lie, he lost that gift? Because I'm thinking that Drogyn was both exhausted from living/fighting/guarding ancient evil gods, and was feeling guilty over allowing Illyria to escape the Well and cause Fred's death. I'm thinking that Drogyn was ready to die, and took the opportunity Angel offered to die in the service of a final screw-you to the SP. Further evidence, I feel, is that Drogyn said "Thank you," to Angel when he pulled him away from the guys who were beating him (which is also further evidence that he was old - young strong Drogyn would've kicked them to pieces) and I don't think he was saying thanks for saving me, but thanks for ending me. What I need to rewatch for is to find out if, somewhere in his conversation with the MoG, Drogyn lied about something. Does anyone recall?

Or am I full of crap?

I should probably edit for clarity, but clarity isn't coming. Sorry. Must sleep now.

Just re-watched "Not Fade Away" and I liked it just as much on the second time through. The Lindsey thing still bugs, but going by what Lorne and Lindsey say in that scene, I think it's pretty clear that Lorne was under Angel's orders, but the decision was based at least partly on one of Lorne's readings. I just wish we'd had an explanation this season of how/why Lindsey declined from where we saw him in "Dead End." Wes' death still kills me, even knowing it's coming. I was actually surprised at how quickly paced it feels, it felt like I'd only popped the tape in 15 minutes before and it was over.

Odd little detail I noticed on rewatch, the devil-guy actually grabs his tail and holds it close so he doesn't get it caught in the car door. Not sure why this amused me.

I sympathize for the people that didn't like it. After the drek that was the X-Files finale, I understand how much it sucks to be disappointed by the ending of a show you loved. (For those into anime, the final (post TV-series) Rorouni Kenshin OVA was also a severe dissapointment for me, though nowhere near as bad as "The Truth".) I'd be interested to hear what exactly didn't work for people, but I understand not wanting to harsh the mellow here.

Now I don't remember, and I don't have time, blast it, for a rewatch, but was the eternal youth tied to the not-lying? As in, if he did lie, he lost that gift?

I don't know. I believe folklore and mythology has a lot of instances where a gift is tied into a restriction of some kind, so it would definitely make sense.

However, I don't believe we ever saw him lie on-screen. So yeah, loose-end, which admittedly there were a few.

I'm thinking the eternal youth was tied to the proximity of guarding the well and the lie combined.

Edited because I was definitely overreacting.

Sorry, folks, nothing to see here.

I only have Buffy S2 on DVD (it's pricey to put a collection together all at once), so I re-watched Becoming #1 and #2. My grand theory is that Whistler worked for the Senior Partners. My philosopy of W&H is that it is an actor favoring evil but also favoring survival so it could continue doing evil. I think Angel S5 provided a great way of exposing that W&H's view of the apocalypse that it was ongoing, manageable and could last a long time. Sudden and unpredictable endings take away the firm's control of things. Better the devil you know...

...so Whistler in my mind wanted Angel prepared to prevent Acathla from swallowing the world because it disrupted things, made a mess, so to speak. W&H's continued viability stemmed from the fact that it doesn't put the world into Hell (or a hell dimension) all at once. Whistler used Buffy as a canard to shape Angel up, because on its face, it's absurd to have a vampire (even a souled one) watch over the fate of a Slayer. Perhaps W&H considered it a good internship before stepping into the big time.

Just my two cents.