I'm not happy about the cancellation, but I wouldn't say I'm mad at the WB. Still, the "your friends at the WB" thing rankled because I don't think the show was well-treated over the years. It wasn't cancelled, and I'm grateful for that, but it seemed to get the same treatment that Newsradio got from NBC. How often can a network expect a show's fans to follow it around the schedule? I'll always think of Angel as a Tuesday show because of the Buffy connection, but in five years it was on four different nights. On Monday it was part of one of the strangest pairings in television history (Seventh Heaven lead-in), and on Sundays and Wednesdays it was against shows that were popular with Buffy and Angel fans (Alias and Malcolm on Sunday, West Wing and the OC on Wednesday). Inept scheduling? Deliberately shooting themselves in the foot? I don't know and I don't care that much, because I'm happy to have had five years of a great show. But "your friends" seemed really disingenuous. Last week in Spoilers the Partyman commented on how odd the preview's "the WB series finale" seemed, and I responded:

I've always thought that the bad feelings between the WB and ME arising from the contentious Buffy negotiations that ended with it moving to UPN got taken out on Angel. The way it kept getting moved around, the lack of promotion, not re-airing eps, etc. So I saw "the WB Series Finale" as a final slap: "Bye. Have fun on your new netw... oh, that's right, you don't have a new network." Of course I have no solid evidence to back that up. Just seemed that way.

Still feel that way, still have no evidence to back it up. The only thing I'd change is that the "friends" had one dig left. YWBFMV.

It doesn't even sound like bitching to me. He had more story to tell and is bummed he doesn't get to tell it. I mean, what's the alternative? Not caring? "We're renewed, we're cancelled, same diff."

The bitter ones are just the ones that seem to cause discussion.

Well, yeah. The man should avoid bitter interviews.

I've seen some writers really bitch and moan in the media, and Joss hasn't even come close.

Sure, but the heights of Chuck Palahniuk aren't so much a standard as a pathetic display. All I'm saying is that I expect more of the man than beating the lowest common denominator.

He had more story to tell and is bummed he doesn't get to tell it.

Then why waste time in Rome?

I'm very carpe diem about things. Treat every season as if it could be your last, relish every second of film, and then you get really good teevee. The alternative is too many Potentials.

I agree with scrappy on this. I characterized them as bitter, as shorthand for the discussion, but where did Joss come across so bitter that it would have been better for him to avoid bitter interviews? I can't think of one that made me wince or think he was going to regret saying anything, later.

He did say they had a lot of emotion on set and that he didn't feel it was the show's time.

But he made the battle possible. I saw someone (somewhere else) expressing disappointment that Wes didn't even get to kill his assigned target--Vail. Illyria made the kill. I am finding myself thrilled by a lot of the things that seem to be disappointing others.

To me, that Wes didn't even get to kill Vail is a great example of what I loved about this finale, and why I think the finale absolutely fit the series (as a single piece). No, he didn't get to kill Vail, but if he hadn't faced Vail, Vail probably would not have been killed. Illyria went there because Wes was there. Illyria went to help Wes, because Wes loved/s Fred. Fred died, and Illyria was reincarnated, because the gang was becoming corrupted. The gang was being corrupted because Angel had to save Connor. Angel had to save Connor because... well you know. I hate to keep hashing on "if nothing that we do matters, all that matters is what we do," but yeah. That. Everyone mattered to the final battle, and even the outcome of the battle doesn't matter as much as that they are going to battle.

I thought it was significant that Wes mentioned being a Watcher. He did it in a context of telling truth from lies/majik. But it’s also significant because of Illyria. A Watcher trains someone else to do the fighting. Sunnydale Wes was a lousy Watcher. He failed Faith and Buffy. There was some redemption for him with Buffy in the Graduation Finale – he did stay to try to help (although he got knocked down in the first seconds of the battle and made no further contribution, thereby demonstrating his ineffectiveness). But there was no redemption for him with Faith until LA. (He did show real courage in the fact of her torturing him. I think she respected him for it.) But more important was how he got her to defeat Angelus. He figured out how to get her ready for the fight and what tactic was necessary. Then he put himself on the line to get it done.

Wes did not kill Vail himself – but he trained the instrument which accomplished that task (as well as killing the Devil demon and 2 other members of the Circle). I liked that.

But wasn't it a five year contract? If not at the end of season five, then when?

What Robin said. Even if I still want to say Scrappy.

I thought it was significant that Wes mentioned being a Watcher. He did it in a context of telling truth from lies/majik. But it’s also significant because of Illyria. A Watcher trains someone else to do the fighting. Sunnydale Wes was a lousy Watcher. He failed Faith and Buffy. There was some redemption for him with Buffy in the Graduation Finale – he did stay to try to help (although he got knocked down in the first seconds of the battle and made no further contribution, thereby demonstrating his ineffectiveness). But there was no redemption for him with Faith until LA.

Me, too. I was just working on a section about that for my LJ entry that is probably never going to come to pass. It was about how all of their assignments, and the way they fit so nicely with each character's journey. I'll just put that part up here.

Each character is assigned a target from the Circle of the Black Thorn. Each target (or the way the character approaches it, or the fallout from making the mark) is, in some sense, a personal demon for the team member to whom it is assigned. Wesley must kill Vail. In part, killing Vail is assigned to Wesley because of who he is. While tending her wounds, Wesley told Illyria that one of the first things a Watcher learns is to separate truth from illusion because in the world of magicks, it is the hardest thing to do. Who else can handle this sorcerer demon?

Perhaps more significantly, Vail-as-target also ties nicely into Wesley's journey, because Angel knows Vail is psychologically vulnerable to Wes. Vail indicated as much when he confided to Angel that he sees Wesley as intriguingly unstable. Angel tells Wes that Vail suspects Wesley would betray Angel. Of course Wesley has unintentionally betrayed Angel before. The memory of this is only in his mind again, because (again) he failed to trust Angel (and I'll note here his distrust is always justifiable, I'm not criticizing Wesley, just summarizing the past*), and broke the Orlon Window, which returned the S3/S4 memories to him. This—Angel assigning Cyvus Vail to Wes—is, to me, one of the most beautiful moments of the episode, and possibly of the series as a whole, or at least in Wesley and Angel's journey together.

In giving Wesley this assignment, essentially Angel is saying, since you have failed to trust me, and betrayed me before, Vail suspects you'll do it again. Regardless of and because of the fact that you have failed to trust me—have betrayed me before, I have such faith in you, that I am trusting you to go to the one who could most help you betray me, and then justify my faith in you. I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone who isn't me. But it just brings me to tears, and Wesley's parting glance at Angel, reveals that Wes is fully cognizant of the depth of faith Angel has in him.

*Wesley's history with Angel is so complicated, that I have had to simplify it, in order to address it while maintaining any kind of flow. I completely understand why BtVS S3 Wesley didn't think the Scoobies should waste time saving Angel. I completely understand why Wesley did not trust Angel with Connor, once he started uncovering the prophecy. Angel does, too. And if I had time, I'd go into Plei's observations of how very Catholic Angel is, and tie it all in. But I can't.

Suffice it to say that Angel has frequently been grateful, in a very real sense, when those important to him have failed to trust him, or have had to betray him. He may have been hurt, and/or angry, but more than anyone else, Angel knows the dark that lurks inside him—knows what he is. He is glad Buffy "killed" him to save the world. He respects Connor dumping him to the bottom of the sea, when Connor thought Angel killed Holtz. He respects that Wes took Connor from them. He respected Gunn's early distrust of him. I keep seeing that scene from early on, when Cordelia reveals she always keeps a stake on hand. His reaction there (I can't even remember the episode) is what I'm trying to get at here. It has made him feel safer...from himself. He respects that these people did him wrong, when trying to do right.

I completely understand why Wesley did not trust Angel with Connor, once he started uncovering the prophecy. Angel does, too.

Wasn't it interesting that Wesley defying (betraying?) Angel and smashing the Orion Window is what saves Angel in a way? Connor stopped Marcus from staking Angel and gave Angel time to figure out how to defeat him. But maybe more important is that by restoring Connor's memories he gave Angel back his son. Connor knows that Angel is his father and is OK with it. That his son is alive, well-adjusted, and able to take care of himself must be very comforting to Angel as a parent. But even better is that he can talk to his son as a son. That Wes gave Angel.