I dislike the "we gave you a downbeat ending because we were canceled"

I don't think that's what he was saying, partly I've never seen him sacrifice his fans to such petty circumstances. He's no Sorkin.

skipping 300 posts so I can get something out while it is still fresh in my mind...and before I read everyone else's thoughts and decide mine have already been covered :-)

Lorne never wanted to fight, never wanted to be involved. Back in the day, he didn't even use his name, when he was The Hist, all surface, aloof, ruler of a tiny little kingdom where violence wa not allowed.

He's been drawn to the MoG because he grew to care about them and now he's been drawn into fighting, and killing, and not only that but killing someone he knows, personally. (I have no doubt that killing Lindsey was on Angel's orders. Lorne accepted that it needed doing, and knowing that having a mission means doing thiongs like killing people who need killing is what makes him want not to be part of a mission) Maybe seeing into people's auras gave him too much sympathy for them, mixed with disgust. Everyone who sang for them, he knew their inner selves, good and bad, usually without knowing their surface selves. That probably contributed to his aloofness.

And taht's why he's bitter, not out of disappointment with Angel, but at how far he has drifted from where he wanted to be, and sadness at losing so many of the few people he genuinely cared about, and really knew in a day to day way.

I see him heading into his own version of Angel's eating rats and living in alleys days.

I remember back in Season 1, I think it was the end of 5x5, when I realized that Angel had a harder job than Buffy, because she just had to slay her foes, Angel was out to save them. That's really been his mission - taking out the irredeemable, yes, but redemption was always the plan. The hope. And that's why he doesn't stake Harmony - he still has hope for her, despite everything. No time to help her right now, but hope.

But I digress. I was trying to go towards the idea that in taking ot the Evil Pricks, Angel is finally taking Spike's advice and playing his game, not Wolfram & Hart's. W&H are doing the apocalypse by degrees, boiling the frog slowly (which reminds me of a non-Buffista friend's comment on the end of Angel: "dragon? He should've gone after the frog") - fighting that has never been Angel's game (excetp in teh saving one soul at a time sense, and being CEO of W&H(LA), no help with that). Worming his wayinto the secret society, that's an oppotunit that can justify joining W&H (and it all about justification in a deterministic world, but I haven't finished wankingworking that thesis out).

Signing away the Shanshu, I loved that so much. It's a big part of my personal morality that doing good with no expectation of reward, expecting punishment, even, is the highest form of goodness. That said, I have my doubts that signing a document can invalidate a prophecy. All the evidence in teh Buffyverse points to prophecies being inviolate, nothing can make them not happen. I don't buy that the Black Thorn have really found a way around that.

But I do think that Angel sincerely believed he was signing away the pissibility of his Shanshu. And I love that. It was always "that would be nice" for him, not the thing that got him out of bed to go kick some evil butt.

I don't know that they're all dead. I think they certainly expect to be dead. But what's coming at them in that last scene isn't a bunch of superpowerful demons or extradimensional senior partners (at least , I don't think so), they're just monsters. And monsters, even in large numbers, our gang might be able to handle. Maybe expecially because they aren't really planning on surviving.

Should Illyria survive (and if I'm right about the monsters, no reason why she shouldn't), I am intensely curious as to what she will do next.

Also wondering if it's a problem that the Deeper Well no longer has a guardian.

How much do I love that Illyria's confrontation isn't seen at all, all we get is Illyria rightbefore, and then her walking away from teh destruction she has wrought. Beautiful.

Wes. Oh Wes. Taking evisceration calmly enough to try one last desperate and doomed magical effort to kill the sorceror. And only then allowing himself to believe the twin lies that Vail is dead and Fred is holding him. Poor poor Wes. He deserves more words than I have right now.

I wonder if Spike falls into the tiny blond(e) category of which Angel is so fond.

And that's why he doesn't stake Harmony - he still has hope for her, despite everything. No time to help her right now, but hope.

Why not for Lindsey, then?

This reminds me just how much my reaction to Wes was so subtly shifted by the writers. I really did not relish his appearance on the show; he, by s.3, became the most compelling character.

It was subtle wasn't it. At some point I'd love to track the pivotal scenes that reflect the Wesley transitions.

At some point I'd love to track the pivotal scenes that reflect the Wesley transitions.

Paging Plei, PMM to the white courtesy phone ...

But I digress. I was trying to go towards the idea that in taking ot the Evil Pricks, Angel is finally taking Spike's advice and playing his game, not Wolfram & Hart's.

Lindsey's advice, actually. Poor Lindsey. I'm sorry he's dead; sorrier in some ways than I am about Wes, who wanted to go. But to be fair, it's the Lindsey who left in Dead End who I'm sad to lose.

It was kind of Eve not to tell him that she boinked Angel, really.

But I do think that Angel sincerely believed he was signing away the pissibility of his Shanshu.

Favorite. Typo. Ever.

At some point I'd love to track the pivotal scenes that reflect the Wesley transitions.

I think the first real change was "I wanna hear you scream" ... "You never will."

For me after the ending of the series, even if they did have another season, it would still have to end the same way, because this ending is absolutley the way A:ts has to end.

I wonder if Spike falls into the tiny blond(e) category of which Angel is so fond.

Just that one time...

Paging Plei, PMM to the white courtesy phone ...

I'll Nilly it...