Jayne: Anybody remember her comin' at me with a butcher's knife? Wash: Wacky fun.

'Objects In Space'


Angel 5: Is That It? Am I Done?  

[NAFDA] This is where we talk about the show! Anything that's aired in the US (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though -- if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


Micole - May 21, 2004 6:30:05 am PDT #1189 of 3531
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

I think it's pretty typical for artists to channel their feelings into art.

But I also don't really care about the circumstances of production; I care about the art produced, and whether the art works for me is more important than what the artist thinks about it. In many ways, the artist is a lot less real to me than the artwork. The artwork I know; the artist is a stranger.

On another tangent, I kind of see Lorne going off and tending bar in a rundown reincarnation of Casablanca/Caritas, when one day a bunch of Slayers walks in, ready for some R&R after offing some demons ... and, you know, that's it. That's the story. Because he's broken, and he's not going to rejoin the fight.


Maysa - May 21, 2004 6:32:13 am PDT #1190 of 3531

The final episode of BtVS bent over backwards to have a tidy ending, and the incredible plot contrivances in order to accomplish that were painfully obvious. "Angel" made no such compromises. Whether Angel and the gang win or lose is almost less important than that they fought knowing that the fight itself is what mattered.

You know, I disliked the finale when I watched in on Wed. night because I still couldn't see why Angel was bringing about this apocalypse. But after talking to some of my friends and family members (who all loved it) and reading the posts on this board and then watching it again - it finally all clicked in my mind last night.

When Angel gave that speech to Connor in Deep Down about heroes living the way the world should be, he believed it, but TPTB spent the rest of 4th season taking everything away from Angel and then having him be the instrument for returning the world to the status quo. After the misery and failure of season four, it made perfect sense that he believed that working for an evil corporation (working in the system, using the system's power) was now the only way to affect change.

But then, starting with You're Welcome, and especially in Underneath, I think he realized that not only has he been playing their game since he took over W&H, but maybe he's been playing it all along. If he just walked away from W&H and went back to Angel Investigations he'd still be accepting the world on their terms. (It ties in to what Connor said in Peace Out about Angel liking the Harshness and Cruelty because it gives him purpose.)

I'm actually sort of loving the fact that Angel finally decided to change how the battle is fought and maybe go out in a blaze of glory. He brought what was underneath right to the surface and was no longer accepting the way the world works.


Lyra Jane - May 21, 2004 6:37:16 am PDT #1191 of 3531
Up with the sun

but since there won't be another season, I have to kill them now."

But coupled with the sentences about their disappointment over the cancellation making it into the finale, it reads more as "I HAD an uplifting finale planned, but I only got 110 episodes instead of 132, so therefore I'm gonna kill everyone to reflect how pissed off I am."

I mean, dude. He has every right to kill everyone if he wants to, and I'm not overly unhappy with the end of "Not Fade Away." I just don't think it's appropriate to let professional disappointment (a meta-issue if there ever was one) dictate onscreen events. The network doesn't care, so it only hurts the fans.

(I'm not saying I think fans "deserved" a happy ending, just that I dislike the "we gave you a downbeat ending because we were canceled" concept. If he'd kept his mouth shut, I wouldn't care.)


§ ita § - May 21, 2004 6:44:55 am PDT #1192 of 3531
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

LJ, where's that brutal quote from? Because, without context, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Meta-issues dictate onscreen events all the time, and I don't see where the fans got hurt anyway.


Katie M - May 21, 2004 6:48:00 am PDT #1193 of 3531
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies

If he just walked away from W&H and went back to Angel Investigations he'd still be accepting the world on their terms.

Should Anne go out, buy an Uzi, and go on a Bad Guys Of The Neighborhood-killing rampage?


Jessica - May 21, 2004 6:52:49 am PDT #1194 of 3531
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

But coupled with the sentences about their disappointment over the cancellation making it into the finale, it reads more as "I HAD an uplifting finale planned, but I only got 110 episodes instead of 132, so therefore I'm gonna kill everyone to reflect how pissed off I am."

But where are you getting that there was ever going to be an uplifting ending? S5 was always supposed to end this way -- with the MoG killing the Black Thorn and bringing down the wrath of the Senior Partners.


Maysa - May 21, 2004 6:53:21 am PDT #1195 of 3531

Should Anne go out, buy an Uzi, and go on a Bad Guys Of The Neighborhood-killing rampage?

Yes.


Katie M - May 21, 2004 6:54:56 am PDT #1196 of 3531
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies

Yes.

Hee. Okay, that's consistent, then.


Maysa - May 21, 2004 6:57:52 am PDT #1197 of 3531

Hee. Okay, that's consistent, then.

Yeah, I know, it doesn't really make sense, but it's the only way I can sort of understand what Angel was trying to do.

Edited to attempt clarity.


bon bon - May 21, 2004 6:57:57 am PDT #1198 of 3531
It's five thousand for kissing, ten thousand for snuggling... End of list.

I dislike the "we gave you a downbeat ending because we were canceled"

I don't think that's what he was saying, partly I've never seen him sacrifice his fans to such petty circumstances. He's no Sorkin.