BTW- Did I see you say that you came to Maine last weekend?

Yeah, I was up there the weekend of the 15th visiting family.

At the end, after all these years, his guns and knives failed him, but he has finally earned his stripes as a watcher.

This reminds me just how much my reaction to Wes was so subtly shifted by the writers. I really did not relish his appearance on the show; he, by s.3, became the most compelling character.

I don't think of Lorne as morally ambiguous. I think of Lindsey that way. Lorne just isn't motivated by the polarities, and is lazy and kinda cowardly.

I agree, in addition to his cowardice (or maybe this was his personal fanwank), I think he saw himself as basically peaceable, and above the fray. And (to me, at least) it seems he had his hopes too pinned on Angel. I think he wanted Angel to be good for him, and was hoping to be one of the good guys, but by association, skipping all the wetwork. Understanding the compromises Angel made, and seeing where and why they were necessary (and sometimes not)—if ugly—really undid him. I think Lorne's whole worldview is askew.

It took me a while to get to this place in my brain. When I first read the spoilers, and even after I first saw the episode, I was puzzled and annoyed by Lorne's decision not to meet everyone back in the alley. But now, it works for me. In fact, I don't think anything else (for Lorne's story) would have worked for me.

On the outrage at the WB front, author Peter David calls the "Your friends at the WB" bit "the most horrifying moment of the evening" on his blog.

With the baby duck/Wes is a puppy group. Maybe, years down the road, it could have turned into something resembling true love, but I think that's too alien a concept to Illyria right now.

I love the way Wes' story ended--it felt right. But any prospect of a movie/mini-series/spin-off feels... dimmed and incomplete to me due to Wes' absence, you know? Sigh.

Vonnie is me. It was heart-breaking, but it was what needed to happen. And I can't really imagine a spin-off or continuation without him. I came late to the game, but seeing bits of season 3 and then starting to actually watch season 4, I couldn't believe he was the same character from Buffy. It was one of the reasons that I felt compelled to get the earlier seasons on DVD, to find out how he got there.

On the outrage at the WB front, author Peter David calls the "Your friends at the WB" bit "the most horrifying moment of the evening" on his blog.

Heh. I'm actually very, very intrigued by his theories regarding the Smallville finale, though.

On the outrage at the WB front, author Peter David calls the "Your friends at the WB" bit "the most horrifying moment of the evening" on his blog.

It is! It is! I still can't write up my real thoughts, because it comes to mind, and I get all angry again. I really haven't hated them this badly since they billed the BtVS season 5 finale as "The WB's Series Finale." They're weevil bastards.

deb has some lovely plans for them.

Whew, I was afraid the Tues. replay would be at the usual time and interfere with the season finale of 24, but it's at 8 accroding to the WB web site. Yay!

On the outrage at the WB front, author Peter David calls the "Your friends at the WB" bit "the most horrifying moment of the evening" on his blog.

His take on the ending pretty much sums up my feelings, although I liked CHOSEN better than he did and I'm not sure there were NO contrivances to get to where NOT FADE AWAY did:

Personally, I loved it.

Why? Because it wasn't an ending. Why is that good? Because it was a true ending. It was true because the fight against evil has no ending. "Angel," particularly in its last season, has been a series about ambiguities, about gray areas. The fact that there was no clear cut conclusion means that the series ended in a way that was thematically consistent. And that was a nervy, incredibly gutsy way to go. Gutsy because it was 100% guaranteed to piss off a lot of fans who wanted to see if Shonshu was fulfilled, who wanted to see how (not if) Angel triumphed over the Senior Partners. The final episode of BtVS bent over backwards to have a tidy ending, and the incredible plot contrivances in order to accomplish that were painfully obvious. "Angel" made no such compromises. Whether Angel and the gang win or lose is almost less important than that they fought knowing that the fight itself is what mattered.

I would have been disappointed—maybe even offended—had there been a final battle that included a conclusion. I'm not even ready to consider that there might be an army of slayers coming to their rescue, or all the other saves I've seen people offer here in the spirit of speculation. I feel like I did at the end of The Gift. I need this story to be true (and to be it) for a while. Angel and company did the best they could, and some died, and others are dying, and they're all probably going to die, not because they want to, but because they have to fight this particular fight. Angelus's words as he approached Acathla are running through my brain right now, too--the bit about every moment in his life leading him there...

I'm working on a similarly-themed post in my lj, but am having trouble getting it where I want it to go.

Now if someone could figure out a way to wank Wesley back to life, I'd be happy.

Wesley's dead, and I think it's where he really wants to be.

But that's not where I want him to be.

Maria = me... ITA that this is how Wesley's story ends, and it was a good ending, just heartbreaking, yadda yadda yadda, but I don't want him to be dead, I want him to be fighting alondside the others in that last big battle!

So maybe he wasn't really dead when Illyria stood up to punch Vail (only a little dead!) and, you know, before she teleports Buffy and the other slayers in, Willow teleports to Wesley to heal him? Hey, it's not perfect, but it's a starting point...

Heh. I'm actually very, very intrigued by his theories regarding the Smallville finale, though.

Yeah! I don't think I've actually seen a good discussion of Smallville beside here (and even our critical faculties have slacked since s.1)-- not that I've looked-- so it was very interesting.

t /OT