I'm importing this from Minearverse:

The stereotyping in Totem Mole made some of us (all of us?) cringe. But that's for spoilers.

So, here we are (or will be, once y'all wake up). Does anyone want to tell me about their cringing. I only read the episode—I haven't yet seen it. Cringing more occured to me, than happened to me, but I suspect some of the cringe-inducing stuff was either visual, or at least greatly aided by the visual. Please to talk, talky-meat!

I'm not very PC, so there was no cringing, too busy laughing. I'd love to see the bit where Jaye is trying to divert the feather from outing her as the chosen one. If that works half as well on film as it does in my head, it'll just kill. Just the perfect visual of her trying to dodge her destiny.

I'm feeling robbed again.

Cindy, I have about two minutes, but I'll get it started:

I can't recall what nation this was supposed to be, but I'm assuming it's related to Seneca or, at the very least, a tribe that is a member of the Iroquois confederacy.

ISSUES:

1. Tribes in the Iroquois confederacy did NOT use teepees. Most Northeast tribes didn't, as a matter of fact. To have the grandmother laid out in a teepee is very, very wrong (right if it was supposed to be lets pull one over on the tourists, but it was specifically part of a larger religious ceremony). A longhouse, yes.

2.There would not have been a plains-indian style headdress. Something like a Gustoweh, yes. But not a huge headdress. (and now I can't remember if there was one or not or if I'm projecting because I was cringing so much).

3. Totem poles are unique to nations such as the Haida and Tshimshian, who are located in the Pacific Northwest.

4. The Mystic Shaman Indian is such a played-out (and, at times, incredibly offensive) trope that I cannot even deal. The fact that most Native Americans get portrayed in one of three roles (stoic warrior, mystic shaman and Keeper of the Earth) ends up being a continually and lame appropriation of culture. When Dianne was a badass lawyer, she was interesting to watch becuase she wasn't a stereotype.

Satsuma, Kat.

Also -- the totem pole is explicitly to get tourist attention, so I don't think it needs to be consdered as a scriptwriting attempt at authenticity.

Badass lawyer chick bothered me (a bit, obviously not entirely, because krav), but now that I think about it -- she's closer to the DropSquadWhiteyHating!BornAgainEducatedNegro stereotype. Quite possibly not as played out or boring in Native Americana.

Thanks, Kat!

1. Tribes in the Iroquois confederacy did NOT use teepees. Most Northeast tribes didn't, as a matter of fact. To have the grandmother laid out in a teepee is very, very wrong (right if it was supposed to be lets pull one over on the tourists, but it was specifically part of a larger religious ceremony). A longhouse, yes.

Yes! I can't believe I missed that one. I have to go look at the script. I think though it was referred to as either a teepee or wigwam, so I should have picked up on that. I'm disappointed in me.

2.There would not have been a plains-indian style headdress. Something like a Gustoweh, yes. But not a huge headdress. (and now I can't remember if there was one or not or if I'm projecting because I was cringing so much).

This was the kind of thing I wondered about when reading. It's too bad they made this mistake. Also? I don't think I knew the term for Gustoweh until right now, so thank you.

3. Totem poles are unique to nations such as the Haida and Tshimshian, who are located in the Pacific Northwest.

There was a line in the script about it being fake, to attract the tourists. I think the totem pole spoke it. Did that line make the episode?

4. The Mystic Shaman Indian is such a played-out (and, at times, incredibly offensive) trope that I cannot even deal. The fact that most Native Americans get portrayed in one of three roles (stoic warrior, mystic shaman and Keeper of the Earth) ends up being a continually and lame appropriation of culture. When Dianne was a badass lawyer, she was interesting to watch becuase she wasn't a stereotype.

That's where I expected to cringe, when I started reading the episode. For me, I think a few things mitigated this a bit: Bill wasn't mystical at all, despite his lineage—it was his practical help that was needed; Dianne started out a badass lawyer; Jaye is an Anglo, and is mystical, too. I think I can see where that would piss off most people.

The closest I got to cringing was probably the sit-in at the store. I don't know that I can articulate my reasons, either. And I can't decide if it made it better, or worse for me, that the fellow sitters-in just abandoned Bill when Jaye mentioned calling the cops.

but now that I think about it -- she's closer to the DropSquadWhiteyHating!BornAgainEducatedNegro stereotype.

Mmmm. Yeah. I thought she was going to offend me on that ground, but then I really decided she was a poke at the very liberal, in general. I think liberals tend to take ourselves too seriously sometimes, so I ended up enjoying that bit of it (of course I didn't see it, just read it, and that can make a world of difference).

Kat, ita, would you equate the Mystical Native American trope with the Magical Negro trope, in terms of level of offensiveness, that is?

Also Kat (when you have time) did you ever watch Northern Exposure? I always thought they managed to use the mystical trope effectively, such that it wasn't offensive. I don't (it's been a long time) actually remember it being subverted as such, but the show was so funky in general, that it didn't itch me. I can see it being really offensive to people, in general.

Satsuma, Kat.

I asked Tim. Satsuma was the street the production offices were on, so therefore a completely made-up tribe, and I can't remember any reference to a nation.

Cindy, I'm not quite sure where the Magical Negro comes from. Looks like the Mystical Native is based on a romanticisation of their religion. But is brushed broadly (often the Native is the only one who sees the truth -- their gods not only exist but manifest themselves, and most everyone has a touch of it, or if they don't, it's a plot point).

Magical Negro? What's that about? Guilt? Being more primal (and less evolved)? Dunno.

Badass lawyer chick bothered me (a bit, obviously not entirely, because krav), but now that I think about it -- she's closer to the DropSquadWhiteyHating!BornAgainEducatedNegro stereotype.

I don't know whether or not it's played out for Native Americans or not. I do know that a college roommate (Pueblo Indian, Santa Ana, I believe) used to argue that the best way to Fight the Man was through the court systems because it has been traditionally the legalese that has been the downfall (in her opinion) of Native Americans.

Dianne started out a badass lawyer; Jaye is an Anglo, and is mystical, too. I think I can see where that would piss off most people.

I think the thing that pinged me was that Dianne wasn't a good enough leader until she became mystical shaman woman. That seems sort of bullshitty to me.

DAMN. Can't write the CD I need to but I better go to work. fenh.

I think the thing that pinged me was that Dianne wasn't a good enough leader until she became mystical shaman woman. That seems sort of bullshitty to me.

Yes. I think it's probably a trope of which I just haven't been that aware.