SA said:

The proposal I made was for the creation of a non-fiction thread. I'm going to wait until the voting has gone through on that to propose the premium/cable setup.

SA did get four seconds, once connie chimed in, so Lightbulbs should be opened for her proposal.

I really enjoyed the non-fiction thread. I don't like being spoiled and we usually watch a couple of days later, so I could never participate in whatever discussion there was in Natter. I could wait to read the non-fiction thread until I'd seen the episode and usually discussion was still going on. I am a big Survivor fan and this is the first time I got to really discuss it with my fellow Buffistas.

fwiw, my $.02. it is nigh impossible for me to keep up in Natter. if i do happen to go in there, read what's been said and comment on it i usually end up not having the time to go back and see if anyone has responded to me.

the Experimental threads allowed me to discuss all tv shows with you guys when before it was only the select few shows that already have bucket threads. i like discussing tv with all of you. it was a little frustrating not being able to go in the network drama thread until i'd seen all the dramas i thought might be discussed, but after i had seen them it was extremely easy to read and reply and keep the conversation going days after the episodes had aired. i think perhaps those of you who are arguing that you couldn't discuss the shows because you don't see them right away didn't even try to go in days later and discuss because i seriously had no problem doing so.

if this is convoluted, i apologize. i haven't eaten or had caffeine as of yet today.

I had a real problem with whitefonted TV talk in Natter. It seemed like it would go on forever sometimes, espcially after an episode of Grey's Anatomy or something.

And also? Since I read the board from my phone frequently, and white font doesn't work on my phone browser? Scrolling past whitefonted TV talk quickly become scrolling past everything. Or really just not reading Natter at all.

So keeping TV talk in Natter can have just as profound an effect on some members of the board as not having it in Natter has on others.

i think perhaps those of you who are arguing that you couldn't discuss the shows because you don't see them right away didn't even try to go in days later and discuss because i seriously had no problem doing so.

I think the issue is people who have seen this week's Show A, but are two weeks behind on Show B, and have no way of knowing what kind of discussion of Show B has gone on.

I'd love to see a poll to get a sense of the actual numbers -- people who are excluded by TV talk in Natter vs. people who were excluded by the experimental threads. In this discussion, I think there have been a handful of people expression both views, but that's still just two handfuls.

I think the issue is people who have seen this week's Show A, but are two weeks behind on Show B, and have no way of knowing what kind of discussion of Show B has gone on.

Exactly, plus maybe show C and D as well.

If there had been "click to end" links in Natter like for SPN watch-n-posts, would that have helped people? Especially for live posting when there were few other topics being discussed in the midst?

I don't think it would help. I mean it seems like an awful complicated thing to do, it's one thing to do it for SPN watch and post and other to do it in natter for all the potential tv shows that might be discussed -- CSI, Bones, Ugly Betty, The Office, Grey's Anatomy, ER, Criminal Minds, House, etc and so on.

Not to mention that, Natter being Natter, other discussions would be happening in between whatever television shows were being discussed; so a "skip to end" would mean you are effectively missing other discussion as well.

I think the issue is people who have seen this week's Show A, but are two weeks behind on Show B, and have no way of knowing what kind of discussion of Show B has gone on.

Exactly, plus maybe show C and D as well.

That's what I meant. For example, ND and I are almost always current with BSG, but we just haven't had time to be current with Stargate, Heroes, SPN, Eureka, etc. (Yes, I know that some of those shows have their own threads now, but I'm using them as an example from when they were all in a bucket thread--please bear with me.) This year I really wanted to squee about BSG, but I couldn't without being spoiled for the others. Even once I'd managed to catch up with Stargate, I still couldn't go in since I knew we wanted to buy Heroes et. al. as soon as they came out on DVD and catch up when we had a work lull. Essentially, bucket threads about multiple shows with arcs are unworkable for anyone who can't keep up with every show in the thread but doesn't want to be spoiled.

I really love talking about shows with you all, too, but the whole cross-pollination idea doesn't work for me. Being able to go into a Buffy thread to talk Buffy and a Firefly thread to talk Firefly and an Angel thread to talk Angel...that did work for me. Even when I was behind, I could go in that thread and find the part of the discussion relevant to whatever episode I was on and just read it without worrying about the others.

I'm not suggesting that every single show out there should get its own thread, but I am suggesting that bucket threads be reserved for shows without story arcs. If shows that have major story arcs and generate discussion have their own threads, non-arc-y shows have buckets, I think that we might all find that a workable compromise. People who don't want to take tv out of Natter could still whitefont discussion there, too.

Not making a proposal yet--I know we need to debate and vote on SA's proposal right now. Just wanted to throw this out there as a possible future compromise.