We've built that feeling, somewhat accidentally, in Boxed Set, and calling that thread SF/F was a retrofit

I thought that it was called SFF from the moment the decision was made to combine SFF threads to make it, accompanying by the implicit assumption (still violated, but by a vote each time) that anything else that came up that fit the SFF mould would be happily placed there too.

This is easily one of the most confusing B'cacy discussions I've participated in. I don't feel I'm speaking English anymore.

I may be misremembering. I'd thought that adding SFF to the description/slug was fairly recent, after the last round of "no, I don't know what genre means".

And the original decision to combine never read to me as "it's an SFF thread" but as "we have these threads that aren't Buffyverse".

the original decision to combine never read to me as "it's an SFF thread" but as "we have these threads that aren't Buffyverse".

I agree with this. I think it became the de facto SFF thread after people started discussing Stargate in there. (Which I remember at the time being confusing to me, since it wasn't part of the thread's original purpose.)

If we were creating the thread today based on its current content, I think Due South would be stuck in Natter.

why not simply define that particular thread according to the shows y'all actually want to discuss, and not worry about trying to invent a category based on network or genre or anything else?

I'm in favor of that, but trying to play the game, too.

after the last round of "no, I don't know what genre means"

I saw the two terms as equivalent, and I remember the discussion on what genre was going back way earlier than this last mention.

Lemme go look and see how much I made up.

I saw the two terms as equivalent

And other people didn't, or the discussion wouldn't have happened.

I never had a problem with "genre" in the slug, but I saw the thread as stuff that only coincidentally happened to be a subset of SFF, mostly, but it was a pretty bullshit-consensed subset.

Okay. I skimmed back through Lightbulbs and there was a discussion of consolidating into two threads--one Hoyay and one SciFi. The Hoyay one got nixed, and we were left with Boxed Set with the Hoyay rolled in.

I never for a moment saw any of the HoYay shows as non SFF, so it didn't ping my meter for a moment.

Plus HoYay can live anywhere, and often does.

I think "genre" first came up around here: Kat "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 20, 2003 9:37:46 am PDT as a consolidating term.

And I thought the genre discussion last was to say "the genre is SFF." Was it really to say "okay, we'd meant something else by genre, let's switch to SFF"?

I agree with this. I think it became the de facto SFF thread after people started discussing Stargate in there. (Which I remember at the time being confusing to me, since it wasn't part of the thread's original purpose.)

That actually happened in the Due South thread, prior to the Box Set thing. Which muddies things even more, genre-wise. Though not so much on the "media fandom" aspect.

I never had a problem with "genre" in the slug, but I saw the thread as stuff that only coincidentally happened to be a subset of SFF, mostly, but it was a pretty bullshit-consensed subset.

Indeed. Which is perhaps why we have this differing of opinion now--I never perceived Boxed Set as to be bright liney in the first place, and instead more a (good) accident of the circumstances we place on it. I see Premium as developing along similar lines, which is why I brought this up in the first place; for me, personally, there's far more of a gut feeling association than "we talk about x, y, and z; but not b, d, and a." I don't see any benefit to specifically outlining the only shows we are allowed to discuss in a particular thread, because as I see it it limits the cross-germination David spoke of, and (to my mind) forces us to police our discussion in unnecessary ways.

why not simply define that particular thread according to the shows y'all actually want to discuss

1) because those shows can and do change fairly regularly and with each new season, necessitating a reassessment every time a new show comes out about whether it can/should be allowed for discussion in said thread rather than allowing discussion to evolve naturally and include those shows without bureaucracy involved.

2) because there is still some grouping involved about why those shows should be discussed together in that place, and we're already talking about what those groupings should be.

3) because we already do this and at this point are talking about something more sophisticated than "hey, the same people who talk about due south talk about stargate, so let's give them a thread for the all-together" as our concern shifts between meeting the needs of the people who already discuss the topics and offering guidance for other people who might want to talk about them but not know immediately where to go to do so.

4) because on one level, the way we have things as they are does work, but on another, specificity like that is helpful for some people and limiting for others.

I don't see any benefit to specifically outlining the only shows we are allowed to discuss in a particular thread, because as I see it it limits the cross-germination David spoke of, and (to my mind) forces us to police our discussion in unnecessary ways.

The main benefit that I can see is that if the shows are specifically outlined and/or the qualities that unite them clearly identifiable (ie, by genre or by premium cable), then someone who is not a current thread denizen can more easily figure out where certain conversations are taking place, hence they can join in the conversation much more readily.