Jayne is a girl's name.

River ,'Trash'


LotR - The Return of the King: "We named the *dog* 'Strider'".  

Frodo: Please, what does it always mean, this... this "Aragorn"? Elrond: That's his name. Aragorn, son of Arathorn. Aragorn: I like "Strider." Elrond: We named the *dog* "Strider".

A discussion of Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King. If you're a pervy hobbit fancier, this is the place for you.


Nutty - Feb 10, 2005 5:00:53 am PST #3670 of 3902
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

Or she was written wrong in the script or got wrong direction. But she should be death-wishy personified, not trembling and fearful.

I think it was a combination -- she was directed to be trembling and fearful, but I was also not overall impressed with her physicality. Several other actors handled their weapons and their bodies with more grace and less "well, I won it because I was supposed to" implausibility.

But, yeah. Overall, my beef with movie-Eowyn is script and direction. For the sake of Parental Figure Resolution with Theoden, the character got wrenched into a completely different arc from how she was in the novel.


§ ita § - Feb 10, 2005 5:05:09 am PST #3671 of 3902
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I never thought her particularly cringing or fearful. She wanted to be the big warrior heroine, and then she came face to face with a badassed motherfucker. She trembled, and then she killed him.

I'm good with that.

I also thought that the EE fight scenes were a bit over the top. Being the first to take down an oliphaunt was good for me. She proved herself. However, she's on a battlefield full of people who've actually fought battles before. The EE made it way more than beginner's luck.


Nutty - Feb 10, 2005 5:11:50 am PST #3672 of 3902
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

a bit over the top.

What, the seven-story elephants charging from out of nowhere did not clue you in to this? I think ROTK broke my OTT-o-meter, way before the EE came out.


Volans - Feb 10, 2005 5:17:03 am PST #3673 of 3902
move out and draw fire

I was good with the OTT concept just would've gone in different directions. Oliphaunts, sure. Legolas' oliphant stunt? No. Nazgul diving and dropping horsemen? Sure. Orc leader comically stepping out of the way of a 2-ton brick? No.


§ ita § - Feb 10, 2005 5:19:27 am PST #3674 of 3902
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

What, the seven-story elephants charging from out of nowhere did not clue you in to this?

Not at all. I didn't think those were out of line. The bad guys throwing the unimaginable at the good guys -- I'm totally good with that.

However, Eowyn slicing her way through everything was too much girl power for me. Killing the first oliphaunt and the Witch King is a great resume.

The Legolas stunt was very indulgent -- other than that, the theatrical didn't bother me at all. The EE did.


Connie Neil - Feb 10, 2005 5:35:26 am PST #3675 of 3902
brillig

In the book, I didn't get the idea that Eowyn was a beginner on battlefields. She probably hadn't been in many full-scale things like the Pellenor Fields, but she had her own armor and sword in the books, no one was surprised to see her in the armor, and I got the impression she knew how to use them.


§ ita § - Feb 10, 2005 6:28:02 am PST #3676 of 3902
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I got the impression she was trained for battle, but had never been in one.


Frankenbuddha - Feb 10, 2005 6:31:44 am PST #3677 of 3902
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

I got the impression she was trained for battle, but had never been in one.

I always figured the line "Shield maiden of Rohan" referred to the fact that she was trained in the defense of Rohan. Did I get the quote right? Did I misinterpret? I certainly never thought it meant staying behind and polishing the armor.

Also, wasn't she being left to lead the last line of defense? That suggests some training.


§ ita § - Feb 10, 2005 6:32:39 am PST #3678 of 3902
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

That suggests some training.

I don't know that anyone's debating that point.

Now I need to work out what to google.


Nutty - Feb 10, 2005 6:40:53 am PST #3679 of 3902
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

Ultimately, the point is that Rohirrim culture, as defined in the book, would lead her to particular character moments; but that the culture was subtly cherrypicked for the movie, and she ended up someplace different.

In the movie, (a) she gets a couple of "aint she some cunning" battle moments before her climactic battle and (b) in her climactic battle, her reactions are quite different. In the novel, she was essentially attempting suicide. The bigger and badder her adversary, the better, and she was glad to face something so terrifying. Of course, the movie couldn't leave that the same, or else she'd have willingly been squashed by the first elephant she met.