I see, Katie. Most of my Moria's not claustrophobic comes from the great hall. The rest I hadn't really thought much about.

I looked carefully for that scene, sumi, and I'm not sure about waiting until November for it.

Suela, how was that described in the books? I'm not a battle specialist, and I thought they were pretty much dead meat any way they cut it. I'd be interested to know the right way, because I don't remember the text.

Right. A lot of the military elements were crowd-pleasing rather than logical. Which I can live with, except inasmuch as I am logical yet also part of the crowd. Whereas, the Freudian Assault on Osgiliath was a proper cavalry formation, just the wrong use of cavalry. Which I am choosing to interpret as intentional mass suicide rather than foolishness or moviemaker error.

Point on the lack of railings in Moria and need for some large gathering-place in MInas Tirith. Still -- child-safety never an issue among the noble southerners? Also, very awkwardly shaped if it was intended as a proscenium. I mean, visually cool, but a little less with the logic than I like.

High marks, however, for capturing the motions of giant trebuchets from the city walls. I saw a thing on PBS about a college engineering team building one from scratch, and those are hella cool.

Cereal:

ita, the scene in question in the books has them all dismounted, but drawn up to two main defensive positions on parallel hills. That is, a big circular hedge of spears, which all things considered is sort of an effective defense against attackers.

Breaking the hedge out into individual spears, less effective. Also, more vulnerable.

Moria was a place for a people with a deathwish. Or a setup for whoo!

It's interesting -- I've seen the LotR movies and Heavenly Creatures, so I was slow in coming to what PJ indulging himself looks like -- but with the lack of OSHA in Khazad-Dum and Legolas stair surfing, I feel pretty sure I know it now. It does provide immediate satisfaction, but the stair-surfing probably won't even do that in five years.

Unless Xtreme takes over the world.

edit: Thanks Nutty. It's about all Greek to me without diagrams, but I think I get the distinction.

From the Elvis Mitchell review:

Aragorn has the slinky swagger and dreamy stubble that make him look like a legend created by Tolkien, Sam Shepard and Ralph Lauren... while poor Liv Tyler, as the elf princess Arwen, is limited to dialogue that sounds like a spoken portion of a Spinal Tap album.

To Nutty's point: Yes, I loved the catapult v. trebuchet battle. Now *that* was cool, and an excellent use of CGI and historically accurate detail.

Also, ita... you're right, because of the vast difference in numbers, they're dead meat any way you cut it, but staying together defensively atop the hill earns them more time alive, and lets them kill hella more guys than they would be able to charging out of their defensive position.

Hell, they may have even lasted quite a while, had they stayed on the hill, but ultimately, they would have perished when somebody on the orc team got it into their head to bring up a trebuchet and just zero in on them, or even just left them up there on their hill to die of starvation.

Legolas stair surfing

Never ever going to get over this. Ever. Until the day they make editable DVDs and I can cut it out along with all refs to dwarf tossing.

how was that described in the books?

ita, they stood their ground while the waves of orcs and trolls attacked them. In the novel it's still accepted as basically suicide but they don't try to make it easy for the bad guys, either.

Oh, also, in the novel, they discover just before battle starts that Frodo was captured, so they're thrown into complete and utter despair. Which makes the realization when the Ring is destroyed that much more wonderful.

edited because ain't but one i in despair.

I'm just grateful that Merry and Pippin didn't get trampled in their mini charge. Pure luck, there.

I was arguing lightly with someone at work about the exclusion of the Scouring. While I think it is important (like the knowledge that Frodo's captured), selfishly I don't think it's important enough to further break my little heart, which was in as little pieces as I think possible for successful repair.

Every time I think about it again, Tolkien keeps bumming me out more and more.