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'Conversations with Dead People'

LotR - The Return of the King: "We named the *dog* 'Strider'".  

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Frodo: Please, what does it always mean, this... this "Aragorn"? Elrond: That's his name. Aragorn, son of Arathorn. Aragorn: I like "Strider." Elrond: We named the *dog* "Strider".

A discussion of Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King. If you're a pervy hobbit fancier, this is the place for you.

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Kathy A - Dec 17, 2004 8:17:45 am PST #3425 of 3902
We're very stretchy. - Connie Neil

Cereal to add--

Beathen, Billy and Dom talk about that in the commentary--apparently, PJ and the writers decided to go with a more vulnerable farewell scene. It was filmed during the pickups that last summer.

beathen - Dec 17, 2004 8:22:49 am PST #3426 of 3902
Sure I went over to the Dark Side, but just to pick up a few things.

I can't wait to get my own copy (Christmas) and sit and listen to all the commentaries. Sometimes they make the movie MORE enjoyable!

although he still is whining a bit about being "so fat"

Have you read his autobiography? There is some good stuff in there, but it's mostly about his selfishness and "poor me, I'm ONLY getting $250,000 for a year and a half of work. I'm so fat and it affects my confidence. Mememememe..." Boo. Fucking. Hoo. Trying living on barely $30,000 a year - THEN you can complain.

beathen - Dec 17, 2004 8:24:47 am PST #3427 of 3902
Sure I went over to the Dark Side, but just to pick up a few things.

PJ and the writers decided to go with a more vulnerable farewell scene.

The scene in the previews seemed more vulnerable to me because you could see the tears in Merry & Pippin's eyes.

Connie Neil - Dec 17, 2004 8:30:25 am PST #3428 of 3902
brillig

One thing I'd forgotten was how hot Frodo looks as he gives in to the Ring. Great, I've got an evil Hobbit kink.

Frankenbuddha - Dec 17, 2004 8:33:18 am PST #3429 of 3902
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Great, I've got an evil Hobbit kink.

psst! Connie's a pervy Hobbit fancier, pass it on.

Connie Neil - Dec 17, 2004 8:34:42 am PST #3430 of 3902
brillig

Hey!

Oh, all right, fair cop. Just because I really enjoy that scene where Frodo's lying there tied up and shirtless. Poor skinny boy. Needs somebody to feed him. Though Sam would kill me if I tried anything.

beathen - Dec 17, 2004 8:40:14 am PST #3431 of 3902
Sure I went over to the Dark Side, but just to pick up a few things.

One thing I'd forgotten was how hot Frodo looks as he gives in to the Ring.

You're not the only one who thinks this!

§ ita § - Dec 19, 2004 5:32:45 am PST #3432 of 3902
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Finally seen it. Here's how I think the characters fared:

  • Saruman
and Grima -- mostly well, though weird. Any end for them that doesn't include a scouring is goung to be odd. But I loved Saruman's speech, and how it echoed through the movie. I'm ambivalent on Grima's change of heart.

  • Gandalf
-- brilliantly. All starting with Saruman's speech, and the intimations of the knowing sacrifices he makes of other people. Also, it upped the poignancy of him and Pippin.

  • Pippin
-- see above. I liked his extra moments with Gandalf a great deal.

  • Gimli
-- worst off of everyone, really. I don't think the drinking game made him look especially bad, just that it was a dumb idea that didn't help anything.

  • Shelob
-- almost perfect! I liked the recut scenes so much better than the originals, except that there's an extra shot of her squeezing out of the cave that takes away the surprise of seeing her over Frodo's shoulder.

  • Frodo
-- all equal, I suppose.

  • Sam
-- better, I think. Just knowing that the orcs killed most of themselves before he entered the tower is an improvement.

  • Merry
-- the swearing to Theoden scene was so short! Why couldn't we have seen that? Lovely, parallel and all. He seemed even older this way round. Was good.

  • Aragorn
-- much better. I liked the palantir scene, and between that and the Mouth Of Sauron, it explained his changes of appearance (there might be some Prell footage missing, but I'm mostly content)

  • Legolas
-- not so much change. Any extra example of his sharpshooting is welcome to me, but not precisely edifying.

  • Eomer
-- finally occured to me that he's a king for the final third of the movie! That's not the EE, that's me being late to the party. But I liked it. His scene clutching Eowyn was great.

  • Eowyn
-- well, though a bit much. I liked the speech on fear -- it made her look better on the battlefield, but I think she was a bit too good, with the whole almost taking Gothmog thing. Her and Theoden was amped up, and I liked it. Still think Aragorn was a big old tease, though.

  • Theoden
-- so marvellously. "Lesser son of greater sires" -- thank you Saruman. You just made his battlefied death scene even more poignant.

  • Faramir
-- he was more sad. Didn't quite like the Faramir/Pippin scene, because Pippin's reassurance that he was strong (or brave -- I dismember) seemed a little out of place. Pippin doesn't know him.

  • Denethor
-- seemed more crazy, which is good. I think that was his palantir that Aragorn used, since it was in the throne room (wasn't it?), but the friend I watched with thought it was Gandalf's. We didn't see Gandalf carrying it, though.

  • Geography
-- MUCH BETTER! People's locations seemed much more linked, by everyone watching the lightshow, and by seeing the guys leave The Paths and looking down at the river.

  • Timeline
-- improved too. Suddenly, it takes everyone a long time to get to where they need to be for the Pelennor scenes.

  • Minas Tirith
-- better! Didn't quite seem like so much papier mache, with them having to upgrade to the fell battering ram.

There seemed to be a lot of recutting. I will need to watch the theatrical to see, but it felt like some things happened later in the EE. Perhaps merely because we'd been sitting there for hours. Perhaps reordering. Things like putting finding Merry after healing Eowyn was just weird and frelled the timeline.

Some impact was lost, like the Shelob moment I mentioned upthread, and Aragorn coming off the boat -- but there's no surprise left for us, so it didn't need to be as much of a moment.

Things that I realise I should have noticed about the theatrical: the disappearance of a) the palantir, b) Aragorn's pendant and c) Gandalf's staff. Oops.

So far, I rank the theatricals FotR, RotK, TTT, and the EEs TTT, FotR, RotK. I think that's because RotK achieved such a huge emotional impact and it didn't get that much more (continued...)

§ ita § - Dec 19, 2004 5:32:50 am PST #3433 of 3902
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

( continues...) of an emotional uplift to it with the extensions, though they were cool. It seemed like a bit more of a job to put everything in. Still, yay!

Katie M - Dec 19, 2004 5:35:50 am PST #3434 of 3902
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies

I haven't seen the EE yet, but in the book Aragorn uses Gandalf/Saruman's Palantir. They don't even know about Denethor's until after he dies, and it's never terribly usable--shows only "two old hands, withering in flame," or some such.

Though I suppose now that'd be "two old hands, flinging themselves off of a helicopter landing pad.

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