WRT the choreography at the end, you should never ever do in the movie what they did in Bored of the Rings, and it got perilously close. But honestly, I rewrite that scene for Tolkein a bit too.

I've been reviewing all the inconsistencies in the movies with some diehard Tolkeinites, and don't really need to share them here. But we all agreed that we belong to the Church of Tolkein, and learned how to live and behave as people from how the characters comport themselves, and a lot of that was lost in the translation to screen. As a key point, my non-fan friends that went to the Trilogy thought that the Rohirrim were morally ambiguous, due to running the wild men off their land, and that the orcs were equal to the heroes for being willing to die for a cause and trying to bring about the time of the orc (vice the Age of Man).

Going back to the discussion point we talked about upthread ( about whether Frodo failed or succeeded in his quest ) I've since realized that my theory wasn't original. In one of JRRT's letters, he states in no uncertain terms that the task of destroying the Ring was an impossible one and that Frodo’s success was in his pity for Gollum.

In one of the History of Middle Earth books, there's a great quote from Gandalf about Frodo and Sam: ""... I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad, Endurance Beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable." This was reflected so well in the movie, I thought!

Also to do with tone:

GANDALF: "I will not say do not cry for all tears are not an evil."

Oh, Merry/Dom was brilliant there. He'd definitely become very aware of the import of everything, and couldn't even lie or waffle to be reassuring.

"I will not say do not cry for all tears are not an evil."

At which, me = WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

And t snif Big Gay Gandalf told me it was okay.

There's a great review of RotK at efilmcritic.com, from a local Chicagoan who is an excellent film critic. Some great quotes:

It’s astounding to take in how many characters and story threads there really are to this series. Just reacquainting yourself with each name, can you honestly say there isn’t one you don’t care about?

...Take note action-conscious filmmakers out there –- you want to hold an audience’s breath? Hold the shot. Don’t cut away.

...I want every voting member of the Academy to hear me as I steer you toward the nomination you must contribute to the cause. It is the one element who, in his own way, has managed to bring something extra to every single film and that’s Sean Astin. His Sam is the heart and soul of a trilogy already bathed in it. We love him for what he stands for and how admirably he follows through on it. Nearly every tear shed in Lord of the Rings is somehow connected to Sam’s actions. The first name read for Best Supporting Actor this year should be Sean Astin.

...Return of the King is epic filmmaking in the achievement scales of Ben-Hur, Gone with the Wind and Lawrence of Arabia. It’s Shakespearean in depth, David Lean in scope and told with the grace of Capra, Spielberg and Zemeckis. Cecil B. DeMille would have to look at The Lord of the Rings and go “now THAT is an epic.” Peter Jackson has shot into the echelon of the all-time great directors with Return of the King, which stands alone even with the backup of prologues preceding it. It’s certainly a culmination and one built-up in stature by Fellowship and Two Towers, but after watching the credits roll a final time on this trilogy, I think you’ll agree that this film bows to no one.

Wow, some review.

Catching up:

Re: Arwen and gender roles, it's not actually the "I want a child!" bit that bothers me. Like JohnSweden said, I see the child more as a reminder to her of the mortal life she's about to give up with Aragorn, and not so much "here's how I will find fulfillment in life." JSw said "the child is symbolic of how mortals achieve immortality" and that works very well for me in the story.

God, that was depressing.

ita, do you really think so? I love "Into the West" and don't find it depressing at all, though it does make me weep copiously. It's uplifting, to me, not depressing. (I'm listening to the soundtrack now, incidentally. I don't love it as a whole like I love FOTR and TTT, but damn that's some beautiful music. Billy Boyd gives me chills every time.)

And Kathy, your tag cracks me up! Which is good, because you made me cry with the quote from Gandalf from one of the History of Middle-Earth books (Endurance Beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable) .

I have a ticket for Saturday night! I thought for sure they'd all be sold out, but I was happy to be proven wrong.

ita, do you really think so?

Absolutely. I always felt the transition to the Age of Men to be a terrible sadness, and Valinor's just so there and we're so here.

Hmm. I certainly feel the same way about the Age of Men. But "Into the West" makes me feel like I could go to Valinor someday. No, that's not quite right. I don't fit myself into the song at all. I picture it as Sam singing it to Frodo, and that makes me happy, in a strange and weepy way. Because they will meet again someday, dammit. And meanwhile, Frodo can finally be at peace.

And meanwhile, Frodo can finally be at peace.

Over there.

Where I can't see him.

Perhaps I'm a little possessive of the characters of the story.

Maybe in a couple weeks I'll listen to it again. The pain is too new (I wish I were completely joking there, me and my silly allergies, justastory, justastory).