The analogy used in the books is that the Ents are to shepherds as the trees are to sheep. There was a process where Ents became tree-ish to the point where they rarely moved, and trees that grew "Ent-ish", becoming much more active and atagonistic towards moving creatures.

Yeah--I was just trying to figure out how they'd worked that out in the movie, because they didn't show anything of how that happens. There's a bit of exposition about what an Ent is, and Merry says that they're tree-herders, but in the bit of EE they devote to the movement of the Hurons to Helm's Deep, Pippin and Merry point out that the trees are moving, and Treebeard says that they've got business with the orcs of Helm's Deep. I guess it just made me wonder what dialogue they cut out, to explain how the Hurons knew to move to Helm's Deep if the Ents weren't herding them there, if they were destroying Isengard.

it looked like the trees just followed the trail of the Uruk army from Isengard.

Hm. Point. Maybe the movie is crediting them more more conscious intelligence and sentience than I am.

I wouldn't have guessed that Denethor was that old, from either the book or the movie portrayal.

Me either--John certainly didn't look that old.

There was some tension between Denethor and Thorongil too, wasn't there?

(Plus -- Aragorn/Thorongil was another of Mithrandir's favorites and Denethor never liked him.)

Also, I noticed on TORN that various college campuses are having trilogy showings (UVM, St Olaf).

Also, I noticed on TORN that various college campuses are having trilogy showings (UVM, St Olaf).

GW is having one this Saturday, I think.

Thorongil was getting lots of good press from his various successes against the bad guys--he made it a point to be proactive in fighting back the forces of evil instead of letting them make encroachments unchallenged as was SOP in Gondor before he showed up. Gandalf was encouraging this sort of behavior and promoting Thorongil to Ecthelion (Denethor's dad), which not only got Denethor's back up re: Thorongil, but also predisposed him to not liking Gandalf. This added to his being ticked off with Faramir in later years because Faramir got along with the wizard.

Our Outdoor Movie in May is going to be the Return of the King, which I pushed hard for.

This added to his being ticked off with Faramir in later years because Faramir got along with the wizard.

Showing Denethor's rationality from the start...ah, family dischord.

Peter Jackson has sold out!!

BTW, don't forget what date it is in New Zealand.

I already bought a soundtrack boxed set.

Do you think that the boxed set they're talking about is an EE boxed set? Or the "special edition" boxed set? Or something like that?

Not to be bringin' up old stuff, but discussing Thorongil just made me cranky about wussy-pants Movie!Aragorn again. If they'd just left out Elrond's line "He turned from that path long ago." Grr! Aragorn went to Gondor, served in their military, in large part on the advice of Elrond (and Gandalf) that it would help prepare him for the day he claimed his destiny.

Better now.

I dreamt last night that I was watching the ROTK EE. Eddie Lizard was in it.

But if he has decided where he's going before the movie even starts, where's the choice for him? Where's the struggle? No choice=nothing at stake for the guy and no unanswered questions for the audence, which makes for a stately epic where events change but people don't, rather than the intensely personal story Jackson was trying to tell.

I'm with Scrappy on this. Aragorn in the novel was a cypher, and ceased to be actually interesting round about the middle of The Two Towers. Aragorn in the movie is far more conflicted, and makes me care about him (Viggo's hotness aside) because of the humanity and indecision he shows.